Will the NHL work in Las Vegas?

Great Debates
21

[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman]
If top line entertainers like Dion can pack the tourists in day after day, I can see the possibility of success for an NHL team.
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But stuff like that is why people go to Vegas. There’s (thankfully) only one Celine Dion, and she’s in Vegas. Same with Sigfried & Roy (if they’re still around) and the Bellagio fountain and Rat Pack shows. You’re not going to find that stuff anywhere else.

NHL Hockey, though, is found in thirty places on just one half of the continent. Sure, Microsoft and Exxon will buy luxury suites and send their midlevel staff there, but the type of average Joe who would choose hockey out of the thousands of things to do in Vegas probably already has a home team they root for. I’d consider going if the Sharks happened to be there (and I’d root for SJ), but I’m not going to give a shit about seeing Tampa Bay @ Las Vegas.

22

[QUOTE=RickJay]
A Las Vegas team will be a spectacular failure, a fiasco of almost legendary proportions, and will be an excellent candidate to be the first time on the block when the NHL finally accepts the inevitable and moves a team into southern Ontario.
[/QUOTE]

You’ve got the Detroit Redwings. Detroit is practically southern Ontario. But, yeah, like other people have said, between the Redwings, the Maple Leafs and the Sabres, the southern Ontario media market is pretty much covered. Where are you going to put a team that won’t compete for media share with one of those three teams? I know you and Spoons have both suggested Hamilton, and that might work, but I still think it’ll take fans away from Buffalo. And there’s no way the Leafs would let a new team in Mississauga.

23

[QUOTE=Key Lime Guy]
Interesting - I hadn’t thought of C-bus as a comparative.

Obviously San Jose and Dallas are other success stories to counter the Phoenix example. (Success has a lot to do with the team being good.)
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Not to mention Raleigh! Whoda thunk it? I don’t know how well an expansion team would fare in Vegas, but I can see tourists scheuduling vacations around when their team would be in town. I doubt that would generate enough revenue. They would have to get the locals behind them to be successful. I do think that 30 teams is plenty.

24

[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
You’ve got the Detroit Redwings. Detroit is practically southern Ontario. But, yeah, like other people have said, between the Redwings, the Maple Leafs and the Sabres, the southern Ontario media market is pretty much covered. Where are you going to put a team that won’t compete for media share with one of those three teams? I know you and Spoons have both suggested Hamilton, and that might work, but I still think it’ll take fans away from Buffalo. And there’s no way the Leafs would let a new team in Mississauga.
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“Red Wings,” two words.

Of course the Leafs would have to be compensated, but the southern Ontario market isn’t “covered.” It is, in fact, grossly underserved. The Red Wings are popular in Windsor, but they’re a very long way from the bulk of southern Ontario’s hockey fans; from my home near Hamilton it’s a solid 3.5 hours not counting time waiting at the border. Even from London, you’re looking at 2.5 hours or more. And you have to go to Detroit. It’s simply not a local team; nobody east of Chatham or so thinks of the Red Wings as being nearby. Buffalo draws reasonably well, but not that much.

The Leafs themselves are sold out basically forever, and that’s at very high ticket prices for a perennial loser. The area is starving for more NHL hockey. If the province of Alberta can support two teams, south-central Ontario, with twice as many people in a smaller area, obviously can. Southern Ontario is, by far, the BEST available hockey market in North America for a new team, and you even have a billionaire who wants a team here and is willing to pony up the bucks to pay off the Maple Leafs and revamp Copps Coliseum or build a new stadium.

25

I’m a Leafs fan but I would definitely make the trip to Hamilton/Kitchener-Waterloo/wherever to go watch a NHL game.

I’m lucky if I get to go to a game a year (which is luckier than most) and this is always from corporate seats that have passed through half-a-dozen hands before reaching mine.

This market can definitely support another franchise. (Plus it might reduce the amount of insufferable Senators fans in the city. It’s an added bonus.)

26

[QUOTE=Troy McClure SF]
Sure, Microsoft and Exxon will buy luxury suites and send their midlevel staff there, but the type of average Joe who would choose hockey …
[/QUOTE]

The former part of your statement is actually more important to a franchise’s success than the latter. (Ask Winnepeg & Hartford.)

27

[QUOTE=RickJay]
"The Leafs themselves are sold out basically forever, and that’s at very high ticket prices for a perennial loser
[/QUOTE]

Well, I for one, disagree with that** RickJay**. Obviously the Leafs were dealt a very bad hand under Mr. Ballard, but they had some glimmers of hope in the 90s and are now having to re-tool vis-a-vis the new CBA. But there are a lot of teams worse than the Leafs. Unfortunately a team must finish dead last for a number of years in a row in order to rebuild organically: I’m looking at you Pittsburgh and Ottawa.

28

[QUOTE=Leaffan]
Unfortunately a team must finish dead last for a number of years in a row in order to rebuild organically: I’m looking at you Pittsburgh and Ottawa.
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Ottawa?

Ottawa’s about to make the playoffs for the tenth time in a row, spanning 11 years; at what point do you stop saying present success is because of loser’s high picks. and just accept that they’re a smarter team? The only player remaining from that time, Daniel Alfreddson, was picked 133rd, in the sixth round. No, that team is built on smart decisions, not loser’s draft picks.

29

[QUOTE=RickJay]
Ottawa?

Ottawa’s about to make the playoffs for the tenth time in a row, spanning 11 years; at what point do you stop saying present success is because of loser’s high picks. and just accept that they’re a smarter team? The only player remaining from that time, Daniel Alfreddson, was picked 133rd, in the sixth round. No, that team is built on smart decisions, not loser’s draft picks.
[/QUOTE]

Nope. Alfreddson was a good pick. (Doug Gilmour was also a good pick at 134, I believe.) Most of the Ottawa team is a result of 10 years of disastrous finishes and the resulting trades and aftermath thereof.

30

[QUOTE=Leaffan]
Nope. Alfreddson was a good pick. (Doug Gilmour was also a good pick at 134, I believe.) Most of the Ottawa team is a result of 10 years of disastrous finishes and the resulting trades and aftermath thereof.
[/QUOTE]

You are clueless, aren’t you? I suppose that’s only to be expected given your name. Let’s look at Ottawa’s roster:

Daniel Alfredsson – Sixth-round pick, 1994
Jason Spezza – Drafted with first-round pick acquired in Yashin deal, 2001
Dany Heatley – Acquired in a trade
Mike Fisher – Second-round pick, 1998
Patrick Eaves – First-round pick(29th overall), 2003
Antoine Vermette – Second-round pick, 2000
Chris Kelly – Third round pick, 1999
Chris Neil – Sixth round pick, 1998
Randy Robataille – Signed as free agent
Dean McCammond – Signed as free agent
Nick Foligno – First-round pick(28th overall), 2006
Shean Donovan – Acquired in trade
Brian McGrattan – Signed as free agent

Chris Phillips – First-round pick(1st overall), 1996
Wade Redden – Acquired in a trade
Anton Volchenkov – First-round pick(21st overall), 2001
Andrej Meszaros – First-round pick(23rd overall), 2004
Joe Corvo – Signed as free agent
Christoph Schubert – Fourth-round pick, 2001
Luke Richardson – Signed as free agent

Ray Emery – Fourth-round pick, 2001
Martin Gerber – Signed as free agent
First made the playoffs in 1997 and have not missed since. The only high draft pick still remaining from a pre-1997 draft is Chris Phillips. The other high draft picks were Alexei Yashin, Alexandre Daigle, Radek Bonk and Brian Berard. Needless to say, those picks were all terrible ones and are not contributing to the success of this team.

31

[QUOTE=Rysto]
You are clueless, aren’t you? I suppose that’s only to be expected given your name. Let’s look at Ottawa’s roster:

Daniel Alfredsson – Sixth-round pick, 1994
Jason Spezza – Drafted with first-round pick acquired in Yashin deal, 2001
Dany Heatley – Acquired in a trade
Mike Fisher – Second-round pick, 1998
Patrick Eaves – First-round pick(29th overall), 2003
Antoine Vermette – Second-round pick, 2000
Chris Kelly – Third round pick, 1999
Chris Neil – Sixth round pick, 1998
Randy Robataille – Signed as free agent
Dean McCammond – Signed as free agent
Nick Foligno – First-round pick(28th overall), 2006
Shean Donovan – Acquired in trade
Brian McGrattan – Signed as free agent

Chris Phillips – First-round pick(1st overall), 1996
Wade Redden – Acquired in a trade
Anton Volchenkov – First-round pick(21st overall), 2001
Andrej Meszaros – First-round pick(23rd overall), 2004
Joe Corvo – Signed as free agent
Christoph Schubert – Fourth-round pick, 2001
Luke Richardson – Signed as free agent

Ray Emery – Fourth-round pick, 2001
Martin Gerber – Signed as free agent
First made the playoffs in 1997 and have not missed since. The only high draft pick still remaining from a pre-1997 draft is Chris Phillips. The other high draft picks were Alexei Yashin, Alexandre Daigle, Radek Bonk and Brian Berard. Needless to say, those picks were all terrible ones and are not contributing to the success of this team.
[/QUOTE]

The bolded players were first and foremost due to 1st round picks or trades thereof. Since, you know, Ottawa finished last. Without these 4 players, it would be a different team.

Ottawa has been fortunate to build through the draft process since they have a very patient and knowledgable fan-base. Not necessarily the case elsewhere where immediate gratification is required.

ETA: Cut with the personal insults, OK?

32

[QUOTE=Rysto]
You are clueless, aren’t you? I suppose that’s only to be expected given your name.
[/QUOTE]
You’ve been here five and a half years with over 2600 posts and you are calling another poster “clueless” outside the BBQ Pit?

Do not repeat this error.

[ /Moderating ]

33

[QUOTE=Leaffan]
The bolded players were first and foremost due to 1st round picks or trades thereof. Since, you know, Ottawa finished last. Without these 4 players, it would be a different team.
[/QUOTE]

Without any given players it’d be a different team. And hand-waving away the fact that Spezza and Heatley were acquired by trade is hand-waving away part of the team’s intelligence. Yashin for Chara and the draft pick that became Jason Spezza was a brilliant trade, essentially as if the Leafs had, three years ago, had the brains to trade away Mats Sundin for the pick that became Jordan Staal plus a really good defenceman. It’s as good a trade as the Gilmour trade was for
Toronto in 1991. Trading Hossa for Heatley was also very smart, though not the huge ripoff the Yashin trade was. Toronto COULD have dealt Sundin; they could have traded Bryan McCabe when his value was high, but now they’re stuck with him. Had the Senators behaved the same way, they’d still have Alexei Yashin and Marian Hossa and wouldn’t be as good a team.

Geez, let’s be realistic; take those four players away and they’re STILL a better team than Toronto, or for that matter any other team in the East. If you took the same dollars spent on those players and just filled those sports with the equivalent value in free agents available in the last offseason they’d still be a contender to finish #1; they’d still have both goalies, Daniel Alfreddson, Anton Volchenkov, Mike Fisher, Antoine Vermette, Andrej Meszaros, so on and so forth.

It’s been eleven years. They’re a smarter team. Accept it and move on. All teams get first round picks; some use them well and some don’t. After eleven years it’s time to accept the fact that Ottawa is just really, really well run.

34

It will fail. See **RickJay’**s post. I would guess any seats that are filled are a result of free tickets from radio promotions.