B-b-but… absolute facts! (The zero is silent.)
It would be easier to understand than working-class Americans voting GOP, anyway.
This is absolutely true, in a sense. adaher is wrong solely because he is wrong, and the number of people opposing him makes no difference. You are wrong in the same way.
I don’t expect this thread to change minds in either direction, and your endless repetition of the same fallacies is too boring to repeatedly challenge and you’ll notice I’ve mostly stopped. You won’t like the comparison, but this reminds me of the old joke that the Communists took over all the liberal groups because they were the only ones prepared to sit through all the hours of arguments until everybody else got up to go home and never come back. If that’s your strategy here, congratulations, it’s working.
But it won’t work in the real world. You and adaher are repeating all the assertions you made before the 2012 election, the ones we told you at the time were wrong and the election analysis confirmed. Whatever is left is no more than “next time is different.” Well, maybe. Next times often are. But almost never for the reasons that were discredited.
This is still a heavily divided country and small swings among groups can shift results, as do turnout and candidates and outside surprises. Nevertheless, “more of the same” is the single worst strategy to extrapolate into the future for Republicans. The Democrats love hearing you insist upon it, of course. Cats love the frantic “more of the same” movements of a captured mouse, too. In a cartoon that spells doom … for the cat. It seldom ends that way in the real world.
Adaher: I can easily see Republicans winning 80-90% of the white vote nationwide if Democrats maintain their current course.
As others have said, this is unlikely. The way partisan politics are working, Presidential elections have a 52-48 margin or so – if the margin were larger it would mean you’re not offending the opposite side as much as you could have!
In 2012, Romney won Whites about 60-40. Had he won 62-38 he’d be sitting in the Oval Office now. Even if GOP’s Hispanics defect in droves, a margin of 65-35 among Whites would be enough for victory. GOP can’t get past that because the divisive racist speech and policies that adaher thinks are key to their success will alienate many Whites also.
An America where Hispanics and Blacks are completely turned off by the GOP, but 80% of Whites voting GOP, would be a nation so divided racially as to make a mockery of the American dream.
(Studying vote-by-demographic statistics can be instructive … or scary. For example, Romney beat Obama among all voters who are NOT gay, lesbian or bisexual.)
Nationwide, Obama beat Romney 62-38 among the 18-29 age bracket. As Wesley Clark implies, the correlation between age and party is especially high in a few GOP-leaning swing states, e.g. North Carolina. This graphic shows
[ul][li] Nationwide, 56% of very old voted Romney; 36% of very young voted Romney.[/li][li] In No. Carol., 64% of very old voted Romney; 31% of very young voted Romney.[/li][/ul]
What was then the 14-17 age cohort will be voting in the 2016 election. This makes me optimistic.
I’m going to need a cite for the bold.
…Of course, you don’t have a cite for the bold, because you treat it as a truism. But this is how Democrats/liberals operate. X is true because they know X is true, and X doesn’t need to be shown as true because X is true. It’s a win-win for you. You don’t need no damn cites, because “everyone” knows what you say is true (though I have to cite everything from us living on the planet Earth to 1 + 1 = 2). Unfortunately for you, it’s not a truism, and it’s fearmongering, racebaiting bullshit. Note how not a single person even bothered responding to the “Republicans want to bring back Jim Crow” or “the Tea Party wants to hang Blacks from a tree” lines, both of which are quotes blatantly designed to create an “us vs them” mentality? I didn’t expect anyone to, but it’s always amusing to see how you guys and gals ignore those things which don’t suit you, though you would be up in arms if, say, someone in the GOP said something similar in relation to whatever minority group. Now you’re totally free to find some evidence of the GOP trying to drum up support among Whites while playing on racial tension, a la George Wallace (who won the 1970 Alabama governorship while running a purely racist campaign) the same way Democrats play the race card to paint their opponents as “eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacists!!!”. I’ll wait.
Of course, you could save yourself the trouble by admitting they don’t. Do you know why the Republicans don’t have monolithic voting blocs? Because Republicans do not treat people as monolithic nor do they spend time pandering to any specific group. Democrats, on the other hand, most certainly do both, and I’m more than willing to actually have that debate with you, because it’s one you’d most certainly lose.
Oh, and while I’m waiting for your cite about the GOP wanting to curb stomp minorities, and mostly for shit’s and giggle’s, since the left loooves to claim how “racist” Tea Partiers are (amid lack of evidence, mind you), I would like to counter with an actual video of some tolerant liberals, saying some nice things about a Black male, such as “send him back to the fields” or “lynch him”.
I’ll wait for that cite now.
You should back up and read what I actually said, then come back to me with a pertinent question.
Yeah, shame on you and your impertinent questions! And if he doesn’t feel like answering it, he by Og doesn’t have to!
Why should I bother responding to what amounts to a straw man?
I “guess” the “question” has to involve “square quotes” or else it “won’t” be “answered.”
“Square quotes”?
Let’s see… Reagan’s “welfare queens”, Willie Horton (an ad dreamed up by Atwater, who admits the Republicans attempted to benefit from southern racism), Mitt’s 47%, “food stamp president”, Nixon’s (and others’) appeals to states rights, defending public displays of the Confederate flag, Jesse Helms’ “racial quotas” ad. Just off the top of my head.
Suppose I were to stipulate that “Democrats/liberals” operate as you describe. (And even that that “bloc” is monolithic enough to discuss the way you have.) Would you agree, Omg, that “Republicans/conservatives” are at least as faulty in these regards?
(Be aware that this is a test. If you don’t even know the correct answer to this question, I will know what credence to give your posts in future.)
Let me just respond with one of your own quotes:
Your whole damn response was one major strawman with little basis in reality and a whole lot of projection.
Did you ignore the examples I already gave you? Of course you did - because that’s how modern Republicans work: anything that disagrees with or contradicts your worldview doesn’t exist or is a plot by the Librul Meeja.
Seriously, dude, you are overreacting. And utterly, utterly wrong in saying that I have no cites. Hell, we’ve already quoted Lee Atwater earlier in the thread. But don’t worry your pretty little head about it - you’ll get your cites.
You do know that you’re not typing live, right? That we don’t see your posts until you submit them? I’m just checking.
Well, apart from white Christians, preferably rich ones. Looks pretty monolithic to me.
Uh-huh. Because you’ve got such a good track record on this thus far.
Oh a tu quoque? Nice.
Well here are a few you might enjoy:
Put the WHITE Back in the White House (note the “Romney/Ryan” logo)
It’s called the White House for a reason (note the use of the N-word)
Nope, not a racist in the bunch. And anyway, they’re probably all liberals.
No, you’re absolutely right - you’ll never see the Republicans talking about hanging black people from a tree. They just wouldn’t do that.
“But wait”, you say, “those are just random people on the Internet…and in the street…and at GOP and Tea Party rallie. They don’t represent the party (even though the example I provided was just a bunch of random people on the street whom I implied represented the entire left-wing)! They don’t count!”
I mean, it’s not like family members of Republican politicians have ever said or done anything racist like…
or
But those are just kids, right? They don’t count either!
I mean it’s not like you’ve got actual GOP politicians saying things like “I hear you loud and clear, Barack Obama… You don’t represent the country that I grew up with. And your values is not going to save us. We’re going to take this country back for the Lord. We’re going to try to take this country back for conservatism. And we’re not going to allow minorities to run roughshod over what you people believe in.” Because that would sound like they were being racially divisive, right?
And just because this Republican is worried about the “high concentration of people of color”, it doesn’t mean he’s racist, right? He’s just concerned about voter fraud. Which he in no way correlates to non-white people.
And really, it’s the minorities who are the divisive anti-white racists, voting for the non-white people party.
Yep, definitely the Democrats that are the party of racists.
What’s ridiculous is how little time it took to find some GOP “fearmongering, racebaiting bullshit” of the kind you seem to think doesn’t exist in the GOP - a few Googles and some random stabs at the SRIOTD thread. If I had more time and thought it would make a damn bit of difference, I’d actually devote more time to doing a proper search.
And really, I don’t need any of those because your and adaher’s posts prove my point for me. You two say the Republicans don’t “pander to” various groups, preferring to stick to your base. But to an outside observer that behavior is indistinguishable from the GOP ignoring everything outside its base - which is the minority groups the GOP accuse the Democrats of pandering to. Mitt Romney’s “47%” comment was very telling, in that he had effectively written off nearly half of America, dismissing them as freeloaders who only vote Democratic out of greed. But who are the 47%? When you picture them, what color skin do they have?
Take your time - I’ll wait.
With this talk of voting blocs and monolithic groups, I think it’s interesting to look at both parties: when you look at a big group of Democrats, you see lots of pretty much every “bloc”- lots of white people, lots of black people, brown people, etc, lots of Christians, Jews, other religions, non-religious, etc, lots of poor people, rich people, and middle class people, lots of highly educated and less educated people. When you look at a big group of Republicans, a lot of these groups are barely represented. Very few non-white people, few non-Christians, etc. On income and education the Republicans do have a wider range of appeal.
I don’t think the interesting question is why Democrats have the great majority of many of these groups- it’s why can’t the Republicans figure out how to get more than a tiny minority of their votes? If Republicans can’t even admit that their message has utterly failed among minorities, and mostly failed among may other groups like non-Christians, then they have no hope of being considered anything other than the mostly white party.
From post #1052:
From post #1054:
From post #1065:
What evidence is there that non-white women are more conservative than white women?
The only thing I can think of is the meme that since minorities tend to be more religious than whites, this proves they’re more conservative. (Rush whips that one out every once in a while.) Which might be true if there were no other political issues besides religion. But there are.
And I realize that your claim compared (white vs. non-white) women, while Bob’s inquiry implied that you claimed it about the (white vs. non-white) populations in general, but if that’s the misunderstanding, why not just clarify it? Instead of your veiled insult of his (supposedly) “non-pertinent” question?
So if I may, let me repeat my (hopefully pertinent) question in your quaint 1994-esque, exaggerated anger tone:
What evidence is there on God’s green earth that minority women are more conservative than white women!? 
Hey, it’s hip to use square quotes!
(Or else I just can’t type, read, write, or think. Probably the latter.)
About conservative religious values, and the holding thereof. Even within that, there is a distinct schism. Just to take an example, gay marriage. There are lots of people who think gay marriage is morally wrong, due to their religious convictions. But of those, how many will insist that the law must reflect their opinions? How many may not attend a gay marriage ceremony, but won’t try to have the police stop it?
It is entirely possible for an honest conservative to oppose liberal “alternatives” without feeling compelled to enforce their views with the power of law. It is entirely possible for a conservative to hold minority views and yet be respectful enough not to try and force such views on an unwilling majority.
What? Oh. He only meant, in bed.
She was only the banker’s daughter, but there was a substantial penalty for early withdrawal…
You said-- and this is a direct quote-- that the “Republicans want to curbstomp minorities”, yet when I ask you for a cite of this claim, you turn around and claim strawman. Well here’s a newsflash for you; you don’t know what a strawman is. At all. A straw man is a blatant misrepresentation of someone’s argument. Did you or did you not say that “Republicans want to curbstomp minorities”? That’s a rhetorical question because you did, in fact, say it, and thankfully you can’t delete it because this board doesn’t allow you to edit your posts after five minutes. So either fucking come up with that cite (which you can’t), or shut up.
So again, I’ll be waiting. Take your time. I’ve got all day.
In fact I did not, though you did ignore mine. You’re either lying (“Republicans want to curbstomp minorities”) or engaging in the worst kind of political hyperbole (which puts you on the same level as the other racebaiters who call the Democratic party home).
Without even looking ahead, I’m willing to bet that you would shift the goalposts. But here’s hoping.
Bullshit excuse. Post #1,049 was made at 3:20 AM yesterday, and between now and then no one has responded to the blatant fearmongering, racebaiting bullshit by Democrats (“Republicans want to bring back Jim Crow” and “Republicans want to reintroduce lynching!”) nor tried to respond to it. You continue to ignore it and continue to claim that Democrats do not engage in any kind of divisive speech to pander to and ensure any given specific minority group continues to vote for them, even if the evidence says otherwise (and it does say otherwise). Basically, you just ignore shit that doesn’t fit your worldview or magically hand wave it away into a blackhole of non-existence.
White Christian is a subset of White. Let’s look at Black, where “Black Christian”, “Black non-Christian”, “Black atheist”, “Black dropout”, “Black college graduate”, etc. vote Democrat at about 90%+ frequencies. All in all, if you’re really going to try to claim the GOP is some kind of monolithic voting bloc, you deserve to be mocked and ridiculed.
Uh-huh. Because you’ve got such a good track record on this thus far.
[/quote]
In fact, I do. As typically happens, you guys and gals will ignore what you don’t like
Holy. Shit. Why don’t you read what’s typed out and respond to it instead of bothering responding to shit not said?
Luckily, or unluckily for you, you can’t quote me where I said “a bunch of random people on the street… represented the entire left-wing”. What I did say, however, is because people want to claim that the Tea Party is racist (without any substantiating evidence, mind you), and mainly for shit’s and giggle’s, that I would like to present actual evidence of a particular liberal group being racist. Now if you want to argue that the entire Tea Party represents the entire right-wing, that’s fine. In that case I’m more than willing to thusly extrapolate the aforementioned video to being representative of the entire left-wing and will eagerly await the videos substantiating the proof that the Tea Party is racist 
Otherwise, moving on.
Are you seriously going to devolve your argument down to “Hey, look what this guy or girl’s kid said!”? I don’t care what their kids said, nor should I care. Kids say and write all sorts of shit online, and what a kid says is most certainly not indicative of their parents. Anyway, we’re going to play tit for tat here.
[South Carolina Democratic Chairman Dick Harpootlian, imploring party activists Friday night to defeat this state’s Indian-American governor, predicted next year’s Democratic standard-bearer would “send Nikki Haley back to wherever the hell she came from.” Haley was raised in South Carolina and attended college here, but her parents were Sikh immigrants…
At last year’s national Democratic convention, he compared Haley to Adolph Hitler’s mistress, saying the governor “was down in the bunker a la Eva Braun.”
He refused to apologize for that remark.](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/dick-harpootlian-nikki-haley-90918.html#disqus_thread)
Racist and sexist, right?
Being a minority and a conservative, I can say with absolute certainty that this is true (ermahgerd, right?), hence the name
We done or should we keep this up?
Holy shit. Honestly, you’re being extremely dishonest here. Adding on to the two aforementioned comments about Republicans wanting to bring back Jim Crow laws or the Tea Party wanting to lynch Blacks (which you’ve thus far ignored), claiming your opposition wants to reinstitute slavery is a BLATANT attempt at playing on racial tensions in order to drum up support among minority voters. Claiming that Gerry Mandering was a White legislator who was out to get Blacks is a BLATANT attempt at playing on racial tensions in order to drum up support among minority voters.
The fact is that you cannot find any such examples of the GOP trying to drum up support among Whites by creating a “White vs. Black” culture. None. If the above quotes are all you have, then then you have nothing. Every damn day it’s “Vote Democrat because those darn GOP’ers hate you and will work tirelessly to take us back to the 19th century!” or some form of that argument.
Republicans don’t even do that. Conservatives believe it’s not the role of the government to do what people are unwilling to do for themselves. The GOP “doesn’t do” for any specific racial group. Racial pandering is right up the Democrats alley.
You aren’t going to be waiting very long. The long story short is that it’s true. Minorities do receive a disproportionate amount of benefits welfare benefits compared to non-minorities relative to their total population, and many-- hell I’ve even say most-- are content to live off of it for the remainder of their lives. It’s like the little fact Democrats hate to hear (well, when pointed out by a Republican, anyway…), but a fact that almost any minority conservative/Republican knows, as it seems the majority of all minority conservatives/Republicans grow up in poor neighborhoods surrounded by people who think the same way and are content with their situations. See, I’m not White, so I don’t have to worry about any kind of political correctness.
Let me tell you a little anecdotal story.
I can take my phone, walk right down to Sanford, FL on 13th Street where I used to live (about 99.998% Black and poor), ask people who they vote for and why they vote for them, and here’s the response you’ll get the overwhelming majority of the time: “Democrats, because they help me out with food/rent/lights/whatever”. Point blank. In fact, I’ve done this very thing before. And truth be told, they have no reason to not vote for Democrats, since Democrats are more than happy to keep the proverbial gravy train rolling in order to create a steady stream of dependent voters. On the 2nd of the month, they all get their SNAP cards and welfare checks, which they’ll use to work out trades for cigarettes, booze and weed (something you liberals vehemently claim doesn’t happen, but happens quite often). By the middle of the month most of their money is gone, and they’ll start showing up to the local homeless shelter which provides free lunches and dinner to the community. By the end of the month, all their money is gone, and you can find them begging for a dollar here or there until they get their next check. Come the 2nd of the month, the cycle starts all over again. Month after month, year after year. Ask them why they don’t get a job, and you’ll invariably get a “because I don’t have to”. And you know what? They’re right. They don’t have to work because, contrary to whatever y’all like to claim, they have the ability to live off of the state indefinitely. Why, exactly, would they vote to be cut off? They wouldn’t. Quite a few flatly think they shouldn’t have to work because Black people were once slaves, and they deserve to be taken care of (or however that line goes).
But then I get to come here, read the posts of (mostly) White liberals who claim to know otherwise. I just can’t help but laugh, because it’s actually quite comical. I’m not one to play the “oh, you’re not <X> so you can’t happen an opinion on <Y>”, but some days I wish I were. Your crap about Black people not voting for Republicans because the Republicans are racist is a bunch of BS, notwithstanding because it’s untrue. I’d say a good 95%+ of the Black population have absolutely no idea who the hell Lee Atwater is. What they do know, however, is that one party ain’t going to continue with the handouts while the other one will. And that’s what it boils down to, politically correct or not.
Not conservative in general (hence why it’s in quote). We’re speaking of abortion and the like ('cuz Democrats just looove to throw out the “War on women” meme). I know how to look at data from the GSS. White women tend to be more accepting of abortion is all cases than either Black women or “other” women, yet Republicans do better among that group than the latter group.
Row -> ABDEFECT ABNOMORE ABHLTH ABPOOR ABRAPE ABSINGLE ABANY
Column -> SEX
Control -> RACE
Selection filter -> SEX(2)
Set your weights, if you want them. Note the differences in abortion views by race among women.
Democrats assume women are a monolithic voting blocs when, in fact, they’re not. The fact that Republicans lose women as a group is not a function of the Republicans views on abortion, though that won’t stop Democrats from trotting out the “War on women” meme; it’s a function of race (Remember, Romney won White women in 2012 but lost minority women).
Romney also lost single women, he also lost young women. As you said, women are not a monolithic voting bloc. They can piss off minority women, single women and young women for all kinds of different reasons, the end result is the same.