Will the Segway ("Ginger") change the world as we know it?

Great Debates
41

No matter how you slice it, the thing is WAY to expensive to offset any of its supposed benefits.

According to the Segway site, the top speed of the HT is 12.5 mph, with a “real-world” range of 11 miles on a single charge. I couldn’t find anything on how much juice this thing consumes, or for that matter how long it takes to recharge, but all the puff pieces say “dimes worth of electricity”, whatever that means.

Compare this with my less-than-stellar car: a '95 Chevy Lumina. Gets 24 mpg, has a top speed of 105 mph, and can carry as much as can be feasibly crammed in the inside and tied to the top. Where I live (Texas), gasoline currently sells for 97 cents a gallon.

What this means is that it currently costs me 11/24 x $0.97 = $0.44 to travel the same maximum distance of a HT in my car, for a total savings of…$0.34 per charge.

With a $3000 price tag that means you have to use the thing 8,721 times, traveling a total of 95,930 miles before you begin to recoup your investment! That’s the equivalent of traveling around the earth nearly four times.

True, you also incur hidden costs when owning an automobile, such as insurance and maintenance. But the thing is, the HT is not a substitute for a car–which means you’ll still need that Beamer anyway.

42

There have been little scooters for people to get around airports and other large facilities for a long time. The only new thing is that this gadget can turn in place because it inly has two wheels. Turning in place is not like the most necessary thing and if there was a need for the Segway you would already be seeing lots of those little scooters around. And you don’t. The only thing going for the Segway is the kewl factor and it has plenty of that. But forget about it as a means of transportation. That’s my prediction. It’s a cool toy and I want one… but I’m not willing to pay more than $300 for it.

43

I can see quite a few uses in business. I mean seriously useful, not just for play.

How about a large wharehouse filled with small items? You can find, inventory and even retrieve items using this thing (I do believe it will be able to have baskets attached). Postal delivery has been mentioned, but add to that the bike messengers all over down-town - this is more efficient than scooters. I can see it for paper delivery.

Also, for people who work or study at a large campus and must get around all the time.

Now, as far as consumers go, it’s much too expensive for now, but that will change. I’m sure if the company hangs in for a few years the price will go down. For $300 this will be a nice device to own, and I can see using it for short runs to the store, but I can also see using other devices. I just don’t see a revolution based on this moreso than one based on other items.

If it does catch on, the problems mentioned here can be overcome.

Theft will be impractical because there is a smart key - it is easy enough to steal, but since it won’t work why bother? When reported stolen the company will not issue a new key and that’s that.

Accidents will happen, but they also happen on bicycles, skates, and other scooters. No difference - just adjust. I’m sure there are applicable regulations already, such as when on the road use rules of the road, when on the sidewalk, etc.

The biggest problem I see is that you need to recharge after only 11 miles. I can cover 11 miles in no time, then what? Look for a plug? Maybe you can turn the thingto face you, lean it a bit, and push it like a cart…

Overall it’s not world-shattering, just very cool.

44

LMAO.

By the way, I agree that this thing has the potential to send a lot of lawyers’ children to college.

I also agree that even if it flops, the idea of super-intuitive controls is a fascinating one.

45

Hmmmm, possible business? Personal taxis?

I work in DC. Say I have an dr’s appt that should only take a few minutes - maybe to pick up some xrays or something like that. The dr’s office is about 10 blocks away. The time spent walking and actually in the office takes more than an hour leaving me no time to actually eat lunch. I could drive my car – but then there is the whole parking hassle. I could take a taxi but that costs too much or I don’t have enough cash, plus if traffic is bad it would take longer than walking. The bus is available but the schedule isn’t always predictable, it takes awhile because of all the stops and again if traffic was bad it would take even longer. There is no subway stop close to either my office or the dr’s office.

But what if there were stands set up around the city where I could rent a scooter, zip over to the dr’s office and back in less than an hour and still have time to eat lunch? It could be taken into the dr’s office with me so I wouldn’t have to worry about it being stolen. The stand could be set up so that you’d have to use a credit card/atm card to rent – which you’d be subject to being charged for the full cost of the machine if not returned (similar to renting a car). The fee could be metered or a flat rate. Could have a keycode device attached to the motor so that it would only work if the proper code was punched in – or it could have a key. Could be equipped with a telescoping umbrella for rainy days or really hot ones.

There could also be smaller stands set up which the rented scooters could be plugged into to recharge the battery if the trip was a little long and the person would be at their destination for a while.

46

I was also thinking that a warehouse type-environment would be perfect for this. Actually, I think the best place for this thing would be something like DisneyWorld, or any kind of controlled-access environment where people wouldn’t be able to just swipe one and walk out the front door with it.

47

Uhh… thanks for demonstrating my point. Boscibo says you’ll stay on it “The whole time” because it’s “an extension of your legs.” If you’re such a lazy ass that you need a motorized vehicle to walk through a library or around your doctor’s office, why not just give up on locomotion altogether and stay at home and eat Cheetos until you weigh nine hundred pounds? Taking a vehicle to the gym is fine. Driving the vehicle around INSIDE THE GYM is pathetic.

Vehicles are great, but they’re vehicles, not bionic extensions. As a vehicle, the Segway has no real advantages over any one of a dozen other little vehicles. The control system is a neat trick, but they sure came up with an impractical platform to try it out on.

48

And since it is a vehicle there are certain places the Ginger should not be found. It should not be found on sidewalks because sidewalks are for pedestrians. Other places these things don’t belong include but is not limited to malls, Disney World, office buildings, libraries, and anywhere else that foot traffic is the predominant way of getting around.

I can see the use it might have for people who have a short distance to commute. I don’t think 3,000 is particularly expensive. But it does disgust me that people think this thing could replace all forms of walking.

Marc

49

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50

Put me down for the “has potential, but can go either way” vote.

The trickiest thing about the Segway (am I the only person who thinks “Ginger” was a way cooler name?) is that you have to be able to change your image of how city transportation works today. If the Segway gets widespread use, streets and sidewalks will change to accomodate it.

It’s certainly not a substitute for a car or a truck; you can’t use a Segway to haul lumber from Home Depot or drive to Las Vegas for the weekend with it. On the other hand, for small tasks – buying groceries, picking up lunch at McDonalds, dropping off photos at the drugstore – it would definitely be a cheaper (fuel-wise) and more efficient way of doing things. Having spent half-a-day Sunday running errands within a five-mile radius of my house, I can see where it has its niche.

Since the Segway takes up barely any more room than a standing person does, it doesn’t have accomodation issues. I don’t think it climbs stairs or hops curbs, though, which IMO may be a weak spot. It won’t replace the car, but can be a decent compliment for one.

IMO, the Segway can change the world; the real question is will it.

51

That’s a good point Papermache – we should ask ourselves what advantages the Segway offers over an electric wheelchair, and why electric wheelchairs are not used in warehouses, by law enforcement, etc.

Another question - is there any reason why electric wheel chairs could not be built to go 10 or even 15 mph? If not, we should ask ourselves why they are not built that way, and whether that limitation might apply to the Segway.

52

Color me strongly opposed, if for no reason other than yet fewer people will remember how to properly spell segue (one of my pet peeves).

53

It’s got potential, and I can see some immediate applications. I’d certainly rent one at an amusement park to save a day of hiking around (thinking about those days at Epcot). If you could hook up a trailer of sorts to take the whole family it would be great. The only problem would be the fights over who drives.

The first autos were impractical, expensive toys, but now they’re almost a necessity in our society. They have driven (pun intended) great changes to our world. (Roadways, gas stations, parking lots, drive-throughs, etc.) This might have the potential to cause further changes in the ways cities are developed. I won’t plan on getting one until the price drops and there’s some improvements, but my boss would buy one today just for the cool factor.

Now, how long will it take for customized Segways to develop? Monster Segways anyone? How about games? Ginger Hockey, It Racing? That’s another way this will become more popular. It could catch on fairly quickly.

54

I’ve said in other threads about Segway that I believe the scooter itself will be a flash in the pan. It’s only a showcase for the underlying technology.

The ability to automatically adjust balance and to respond to the slightest physical cues of its operator could be of enormous importance to all sorts of different machines.

55

As I understand it, the Segway has these advantages over an electric wheelchair:

  • Zero turn radius (can spin in place)
  • Uses very little electricity (“a dime a day” is what I hear)
  • All-terrain movement (water, ice, sand)
  • Recharges quickly (one hour charge == two hours use)
  • Does not take up much more space than a standing person
  • Auto-balancing

I believe the Segway has that limitation for safety reasons – if you were to ride a Segway and ran into someone, the argument is that it would be no worse than being jostled by a running pedestrian (versus getting hit by a 4,000 pound car). Supposedly the Segway’s “smart key” will enforce speed limits as set by local municipalities.

56

Way to go. Up next: why calling law officers “sir” is a one-way road to nazi-ville.

Why? I would imagine demonstrating that will also demonstrate why gym equipment is pathetic. After that we can proceed to xeno’s paradox of motion and render the whole thing futile. Then we can go sit on our asses and eat cheetos.

I see. So we just happen to “move faster” in cars and “lift heavier things” with pallet jacks, but they aren’t supposed to be bionic extensions (that is, mechanical constructions which perform human tasks better).

I agree. No need to get pissy about lazy-asses eating cheetos in order to demonstrate it either.

57

I am not an engineer, but I don’t see any reason why the first four advantages you point out could not be largely incorporated in an electric wheelchair.

And of course, auto-balancing is unecessary in a wheel-chair because it has 4 wheels.

This leaves the “footprint” issue. I agree that the Segway has a smaller footprint, but this does not seem like a revolutionary change to me.

I think that you did not understand my question. But I suspect that wheelchairs are limited in speed for safety reasons. And from my observations, those limitations appear to be pretty severe – most electric wheelchairs that I observe go at about walking speed.

It seems to me that the Segway would need to be limited roughly to the same extent as a wheelchair. If this is done, then why not simply walk (assuming that you are ambulatory)?

58

It would not surprise me if Disney or Six Flags or some other theme park chain starts renting these things the way they already rent wheelchairs and strollers. They could make quite a buck doing that. I also like the idea of being able to rent them in cities or at malls and airports.

But as long as they cost more than a ten-speed bike, I can’t see them becoming more popular than bikes. On page one, tradesilicon mentioned bike messengers. I don’t think so, because the Segway’s maximum speed is only 12.5 MPH and I haven’t seen a BM who rides that slowly.

59

I think the Segway is going to be a huge success - just not as a mass transit device.

In a cramped space like a factory this thing is WAY more useful than something like an electric wheelchair or a conventional scooter. The small footprint, self-balancing, and easy controllability at very low speeds makes all the difference. I predict you’ll see them in every large factory, much like you see hand trucks and mini-forklifts.

I think there is also huge potential for helping professionals who have to walk on the job - beat cops, postal workers, park wardens, parking enforcement officers, etc. That’s hundreds of thousands of people.

When I worked at an airport, I would have killed for one of these things. Aircraft parking areas are very large. But bicycles and scooters are too ungainly to be useful, and it’s hard to use them with even one hand holding something. The Segway is much more convenient for short, stop-and-go movement over a large area. From what I gather, you just step on, and step off. That’s a much different experience than riding a bike or even a small electric cart or something. A mailman can ride this right up to your door and step off it and go up the steps without hesitating. That sounds pretty revolutionary for that job.

But jeez, when are these social planners going to learn that society is not going to mold itself to their particular vision of utopia? When Kamen talks about ‘redesigning cities’ around this thing, he’s completely nuts. Change in a complex society just doesn’t work that way. Change happens gradually. VERY gradually, when it comes to something as complex as a transportation infrastructure.

This thing has so many problems as a replacement for the auto that I’m surprised that anyone can take it seriously in that role. The weather issue alone makes it a non-starter. Some of you young guys who ride around on your bikes now may think that this is at best a mild inconvenience, but try convincing my wife to ride to work in the rain in her business suit and carefully styled hair. Or me, for that matter.

Ane the speed of the thing is too high to be safe on a sidewalk (being hit by 280 lbs going 12 mph can kill you, or at least seriously injure you), but not fast enough to be practical. The *average speed you’ll be able to maintain on crowded sidewalks is going to be a lot slower than 12 mph. Probably not much faster than walking. But let’s say you can average 8 mph - Do you really want to have to travel an hour to get to work if you live 8 miles away? Frankly, I’d rather take the bus, which would be faster, and then I wouldn’t have to be worried about storing my $3000 gadget all day long.

I read that the factory is gearing up to produce 40,000 of these things a MONTH. And that’s just for the industrial use, because they can’t even make the consumer version available for a year. So they are anticipating a huge demand from industrial customers, and they may be right. But the consumer version will be a huge flop, IMO.

60

On thinking and reading about this a bit I think that this will be a huge business success, if still short of a revolution.

In addition to factories,airports and the like I think there could be a huge rental market in zoos, parks and for tourists visiting highly concentrated tourist areas like the Washington Mall especially if they manage to find a way to allow these things into museums and other buildings.

In fact its potential ease of use indoors will be its big USP IMO.

Even for the consumer market there may be some important niche markets. Retirees come to mind especially in warm places like Florida. This could be the perfect thing for old people to get around in their community particularly if they live in a quiet neighbourhood without too many cars.