Yet again you prove you never really read the thread. The issue is not the luxury cars but rather a $35,000 EV that goes 200+ miles so maybe you should stop throwing up the strawmen of the Models S and X and stick to the Model 3.
You bring up other EVs. Name one fully electric that gets over 100 miles before Tesla came out. Oh wait that’s right you need to move the goalposts rather than stick to the topic of the thread.
Seven years ago, Tesla made exotic cars. Then they started making luxury cars. Soon, they expect to be selling family cars.
Had someone posted this thread about seven years ago, but titled it, “Will the Model S revolutionize American driving?” I bet you that you would have made innumerable posts to the effect of, “TESLA ONLY MAKES TWO SEAT CARS!1!”
You understand that companies often diversify their product lines, don’t you? And they do this to become more profitable in the future? And that profit is what happens when you sell lots of things at a price that is greater (a fancy word for “more”) than what you paid to make it?
Actually, it is very clear that GM is chasing Tesla. The EV-1 produced about 1,100 vehicles, and GM literally took them away from the users. Tesla is actually selling 1,500-2,400 Model S’s each month, so it’s simply nonsense to imply that Tesla is chasing an experimental car that was forcably taken off the road a decade ago.
That’s wrong. Is Porsche introducing a $35,000 family sedan? Well, Tesla plans to.
The silliness of your “Tesla is only a luxury car company, so they’ll never sell a lot of cars” is that is relies on the same sort of retarded logic as if someone were to say, “Chevy is an ICE company, therefore they will never sell a pure EV.”
I’d strike the word “fanboy” and agree that a sizeable minority of posts in this thread are emotional nonsense, a repetition of factual errors and poor argument, utterly failing to address simple factual corrections.
One more factual correction here: Tesla now sells more Model S per month than Roadsters that were ever manufactured. Sure, maybe you will argue that Roadsters were super-niche, and Model S is simply niche, but you can’t possibly be unaware of Tesla’s trend in production from like 10 cars a month to more like 2,000 cars a month. If the Model 3 is successful, Tesla may be selling about 2,000 of them a week.
Huh, Tesla has sold more plug in cars this year than any other auto manufacturer, if I read this right.
Tesla Model S: 18,900
Ford Fusion Energi, C-max energi, and Focus electric: 15,514
Nissan Leaf: 14,868
Chevy Volt, Spark: 13,610
BMW i3, i8: 10,370
Fiat 500e: 5,539
Toyota Plugin Prius: 4,125
VW e-Golf: 3,151
If you look only at pure electrics, and not hybrid electrics, etc., there’s even less competition.
Also interesting how the market for the plug-in Prius has tanked. That used to be in the running for sales lead.
There is no $35,000 Tesla EV that goes 200+ miles so it’s really not possible for it to revolutionize American driving at this point.
There’s also no $35,000 EV that goes 100 miles. So we’re back to you whining about talk of luxury cars. Which is the only thing Tesla makes at this point.
Look, we know you have a hard…y respect for Bob Lutz, because every one of your arguments is copied verbatim from things he’s said, but even Lutz admits that the Volt would not exist without Tesla.
Which brings us back to a slightly different version of the Magiver-type argument from 2010: “There is no four-door electric car that goes 250 miles on a single charge. Tesla only builds two-seat roadsters!!”
I wish that type of argument was more common in th Elections forum: “Marco Rubio can’t be president. Barack Obama is president, you dummies!”
You caught on to their strategy. Just keep selling the same amount of cars and wait until all other manufacturers’ sales tank. You then become number one!
Those numbers do not bode well.
You’ve read that correctly. The Model S landed well in it’s niche class.
The Prius has tanked. But the Tesla S, Leaf, and Volt are doing pretty well, the two Ford Energi cars continue chugging along, and the BMW i3, which only started sales last year, has grown to be a serious contended in this space.
The total # of plug-ins sold this year is running pretty close to where it was last year, except for not having the boost from some CA freeway deal that moved a ton of cars (and especially plug-in priuses) last summer. (IIRC)
They currently own the luxury EV market. The other cars mentioned are not in that category. Those cars have to justify their existence and sales will fluctuate with the price of gas.
Right now we’re hovering around $2/gallon. This is a nation of truck lovers who are use to 18 mpg. A 310 hp Mustang starts to look like an economy car that gets out of it’s own way and is fun to drive.
.
I’d give Obama the credit for the Volt. It was a guaranteed money loser at the time GM was filing for bankruptcy.
And I haven’t given GM any praise in this thread. I’ve simply pointed out what they’re doing. Ford has consistently been the best run American car manufacturer this century. When they introduced their hybrids the price differential was made up in fuel efficiency. It made monetary sense to buy them and they were profitable to sell.
Tesla has always been underfunded and it shows with their production deadlines. I don’t understand this fantasy people have with the company. Yes, they make beautiful luxury cars. That does not make them revolutionary. It just makes them expensive. Nothing they’ve done will change the way GM or any other car company builds their cars. They have far more resources available to work with then Tesla.
I would buy a Ford electric before Tesla because I know Ford has better resources and will be around to back the car up.
lol, well, i DID buy a Ford electric (the C-max energi) and have not bought a Tesla, so I guess I agree with you.
The C-max is a surprisingly fun car to drive, especially in electric mode. I think electric cars are going to catch on because as people try them, they will like them.
Once again, “Tesla does not make four door cars. Tesla only makes a two seater.”
Which car do you believe helped convince GM to design the Bolt - the Model S, or the Nissan Leaf? The answer is obvious.
and yet, GM only offers two electric models out of the 21 models they have just for Chevrolet and one of those is an electric version of a model they offer in gas as well. That does not even touch the other three name plates which offer NO electric models. All Tesla did was convince real car companies to put out a token effort to drive them out of business. It did nothing to change how they build cars, except to kill off hybrids.
So you now admit you didn’t even read the first line of this thread.
um… what?
The EV-1. Which would have been the inspiration for the Model S and the Leaf.
You’ve got everything backwards not to mention the Bolt is not a luxury car.
Really, you’re not dealing with facts and have attached yourself on a fantasy level to Tesla.
I’ve read the entire thread. I’m not the one asking for quotes that were already made. You on the other hand are trying to score some kind of debate points in lieu of a response to what I’ve said.
Tesla has done nothing to revolutionize American driving. GM has always been ahead of the game and if anything the EV-1 is the influence for Tesla.
Tesla gives plenty of credit to the EV-1, though mostly in a negative sense (with regards to GM’s behavior). Of course it’s well known that GM ended the program as soon as they possibly could, and scrapped all the cars despite the protests of the lessees (the cars were never sold). Not to mention a lack of an EV-2.
The drivers of the EV-1 were enthusiastic about their cars despite it being fairly shitty. If a piece of junk can inspire candlelight vigils, then surely a well-designed car can actually achieve decent success. And that’s exactly what Tesla found to be true.
The EV-1 deserves its place in history as an example of what not to do, and as evidence of the utter antipathy that big automakers had/have with regards to electrics. They would not in a million years have bothered with them if it weren’t for a combination of government regulation and Tesla’s existence proof of an excellent electric car.
Tesla forced the big automakers to move their goalposts. They can no longer claim that EVs inevitably suck and that there’s no consumer demand for them. On the contrary, they’re as slick and innovative and desirable as an iPhone. Cheap is the only argument that’s left, and everybody (including Tesla) is currently working in that direction.
You keep saying that Tesla is a luxury car company, even though they are working on a family car. Seven years ago, you surely would have called Tesla an exotic supercar company even though they were working on a four door sedan. It’s the same oblivious comment you’ve made dozens of times in this thread.
It took GM sixteen years to come up with a second electric car? Holy shit, they are incompetent.
I truly have no idea how to say this any clearer - the Model 3 is not a luxury car.
Here is Magiver’s side in a nutshell.
Ignore the Model 3 and focus on the Model S. I guess S stands for Strawman. Justify this with fact he thinks (or hopes) are true - even if they contradict earlier “facts” he posted.
The bottom line is even if M is correct that the Bolt will hit first or is a better car or Tesla will fold before the 3 rolls out the door, he neglects the main point in that people are excited about the Tesla and many view it (rightfully or wrongfully) as the first affordable AND practical electric car - even though we have our fingers crossed hoping it lives up to the hype.