Will there ever again be a Newtonian-size revelation?

[QUOTE=ultrafilter]
I think you’re misunderstanding the point Chronos is making. There’s absolutely no way to tell using QM which of the various interpretations is “right”. You can start with any one of them, work out the math, and you’ll end up with exactly the same theory.
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That’s one of the reasons why actually proving one interpetation to be true would be a major discovery.

[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train]
The whole business of different interpretations is a great way for physicists to pass an otherwise quiet evening at the coffeehouse, but as Chronos notes, any real approach to QM involves dispensing with concerns about why it works and focusing on the mathematics, which do work…even when they’re not strictly mathematically self-consistant, as with renormalization in QFT.
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Perhaps; but then scientists used to say the same thing about atoms and electrons, that they might as well be regarded as mathematically abstractions and that we’d never be able to actually prove they existed.

And while I don’t recommend it, there actually is an amusing way to prove the Many Worlds Interpetation. Build a device that will destroy the world, or at least humanity; if the MWI is true, it won’t work, because only the worlds where something goes wrong with it will still have anyone alive to notice. Every time you try to use it, something will go wrong, because in the worlds where it worked, there’s nobody left to notice. It has to be something that will either kill everything or not work at all, to weed out middle results. And, of course if the MWI is wrong, no one will be around to care. Not an idea original to me BTW.

[QUOTE=Chronos]
And Der Trihs, there is one other thing that current science says about FTL travel: Anything that can be used for FTL travel can be used as a time machine as well, and vice-versa. The standard line of reasoning rejects time travel because of the possibility of paradox, and then rejects FTL because it allows time travel. But yes, if we ever figure out a way to resolve the paradoces and do it, that’ll be pretty revolutionary.
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I’m aware of that, which is why I think it should be looked at more. I’ve noticed over the years physicists repeatedly coming up with ideas for FTL and/or time travel, and others proving those ideas impossible or impractical, but never actually proving the whole idea impossible. I’m reminded of the days before the laws of thermodynamics were formulated, when perpetual motion devices were considered a far out but not impossible thing; as opposed to now, when just about any physicist will dismiss the idea out of hand because it violates the laws of thermodynamics.

I strongly suspect that there’s some sort of basic physical law(s) that would rule out FTL/timetravel, and finding it might well be a revolution, although of what magnitude there’s no way to tell. And of course, if FTL/time travel is possible that would be a huge one.

Also, it has been pointed out that the Many Worlds Interpetation can handle time travel without paradoxes; the time traveller just splits off a new branch.

No argument here. That’s actually the specific reason why I became a physicist. Many physicists have speculated on the existance of some absolute law which would rule out time travel, but nobody has found it yet.

And I will point out that the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics doesn’t actually make anything any easier for time travel. Any “multiverse” which allowed for “splitting off branches” as science fiction authors are so fond of, would not be capable of satisfying the properties of the quantum mechanical “many worlds”. The many worlds interpretation works only if there is absolutely no possibility of communication between the worlds.

[QUOTE=Chronos]
And I will point out that the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics doesn’t actually make anything any easier for time travel. Any “multiverse” which allowed for “splitting off branches” as science fiction authors are so fond of, would not be capable of satisfying the properties of the quantum mechanical “many worlds”. The many worlds interpretation works only if there is absolutely no possibility of communication between the worlds.
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Come ON, Chronos. You can’t fool us. We all know that’s not true – just read Michael Crichton’s book Timeline and you’ll see how wrong you are. It explains it all real clear-like.

<snicker>

Personally, I think the next big revelation will be in the field of artificial intelligence.

You might find this article useful:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/781199.stm Faster than a speeding light wave.

[QUOTE=ultrafilter]
I think you can make a case that the notion of computation is far more important to modern society than anything Newton did. From an intellectual perspective, the most important discovery there is the notion that not all problems can be solved, and not all solvable problems can be solved quickly. This blog entry and the comments below go into some detail about why theoretical computer science is important and should be very interesting to the participants in this thread.

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You nicked my post! I was even going to link to the same blog :slight_smile:

[hijack]
By the way, do you know of any other lists of consequences of TCS results, like that one?
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[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan]
[hijack]
By the way, do you know of any other lists of consequences of TCS results, like that one?
[/hijack]
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I don’t, and based on the comments in the blog I linked to, it sounds like there really isn’t a good popular exposition of TCS.

[QUOTE=Siam Sam]
Just thought I’d mention that I believe it was Carl Sagan in Cosmos who pointed out it was a myth that people thought the world was flat. They always knew it was round; they could see the ships going over the horizon, the masts being the last visible. It was only a question of how big it was, and if Columbus had known the real distance between Europe and Asia – without knowing of the New World lying in between – then he might not have attempted his voyage.

I had to resign my membership in the Flat Earth Society after I read that. :frowning:
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Not neccisarily - there were long debates as to wheter the Earth was a torus, not a sphere. And until space travel, it was entirely likely, with the equator facing out and the ploes joining at the center.

[QUOTE=ultrafilter]
I don’t, and based on the comments in the blog I linked to, it sounds like there really isn’t a good popular exposition of TCS.
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Section 2 of this paper (PostScript file, sorry) explores five possible “worlds” we might live in depending on the resolution of the P vs NP question. It’s not a popular exposition, but it’s relatively readable and could probably be turned into a popular exposition without a great deal of work.

A huge, huge revolution would be the discovery of a low-degree polynomial-time algorithm to solve an NP-Complete problem. If that happened, much of mathematics and science could essentially be automated; it would lead to thousands of new discoveries.

[QUOTE=rouge568]
Not neccisarily - there were long debates as to wheter the Earth was a torus, not a sphere. And until space travel, it was entirely likely, with the equator facing out and the ploes joining at the center.
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I see. But since there was a debate, then perhaps the torus belief was not as widespread as we’ve always been taught that the flat-Earth concept was back then?

That must have been a really slow news day at the BBC. There’s absolutely nothing new in that article, and even when the experiments described were new, they weren’t nearly as exciting as the popular press makes them out to be. Almost all of the situations you’ve read about with something travelling faster than the speed of light work by seriously stretching the definition of “something”. For instance, one might have the front end of a light pulse leave an apparatus before the back end of the pulse enters the apparatus (which in itself is perfectly yawn-inducing; it just means the pulse is longer than the apparatus), but then they pull some tricks so that the back part of the pulse going in looks like the middle of the pulse, and the front part coming out also looks like the middle, so it looks like the middle of the pulse leaves before it enters. Looks like, but it’s still really just two different parts of the pulse.

There was one result a few years ago which claimed to show information being transmitted faster than c (which would be a very interesting result, if true), but it was fraught with experimental irregularities, and once those irregulariities were removed, the results were irreproducible.

[QUOTE=Chronos]

There was one result a few years ago which claimed to show information being transmitted faster than c (which would be a very interesting result, if true), but it was fraught with experimental irregularities, and once those irregulariities were removed, the results were irreproducible.
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Is this the Italian experiment that the seven-year-old BBC article is referring to?

[QUOTE=carterba]
Section 2 of this paper (PostScript file, sorry) explores five possible “worlds” we might live in depending on the resolution of the P vs NP question. It’s not a popular exposition, but it’s relatively readable and could probably be turned into a popular exposition without a great deal of work.

[/QUOTE]

That was interesting, thanks!

[QUOTE=DesertDog]
God hands us a box with a mystery in it. When we finally get the box open and solve the mystery, we find inside a note, “Oh, you’ve got that? Here’s another.”
[/QUOTE]
Scottish comedian Frankie Boyle has a similar line. He reckons that one day scientists will have figured everything out. When that happens, we’ll see the whole world fade to black and then a screen will come up saying, ‘Level 2’.

Not everybody believes that Universal Gravitation was such a great theory in the first place. This website seems to be the “flat earthers” of the gravitational world.