Will there ever be another Chtorr novel?

That’s the end of A Matter For Men.

[spoiler]After spending time learning how to kill the Chtorrans with flamethrowers and then personally investigating a Chtorran burrow himself and surviving, and then capturing a live Chtorran worm, he is “rewarded” by being granted the honor of serving as the protection detail to oversee the Chtorran worm during a display session for visiting dignitaries.

He is given a fletchette gun (shoots steel needles rather than bullets, IIRC) and told not to worry, it’s a formality, the Chtorran is behind superstrong glass and everything is safe. Poor Jim doesn’t know how the guns even work, but he’s no fool. He goes to the target range, checks out ammo, and gets grumbled at for bothering to learn how to shoot the gun.

When the day of the dignitary visit comes, Jim is conscientiously on duty when the magic superstrong glass breaks and the Chtorran worm breaks out of containment and begins eating the dignitaries. Jim singlehandedly takes it down because he learned how to use his gun, but gets injured, because the gun isn’t as effective at stopping them as a flamethrower.

His reward - he’s informed that he was such a pest and troublemaker, they expected him to die in that fiasco. See, they had staged the event to set the Chtorran on the dignitaries to stir up international concern and support that was previously lacking, so they needed to drive home the horror. So they intentionally used weak glass and wanted the worm to slaughter everyone in the room, especially Jim. :smack:

Oh, but now we’ll promote you and really make you part of the team. :rolleyes: [/spoiler]

In that incident with the children,

One of the kids is sexually abused, and so messed up he doesn’t understand emotional connection without it. When this surfaces, Jim is torn up and asks for help in how to deal with it. The doctors suggest he go along with it. Basically, they instruct him to have sex with the kids if that is what they need. Then later, after the bad guys come and make a mess of things, the people in charge take custody of the kids away from Jim, and their justification is he sexually abuses them.

Of course, there is the fact that

the reasons the bad guys came to that location in the first place is that Jim had previously been brainwashed by them and told them about the place and gave them the suggestion.

So it’s not like there isn’t blame to be had.

Yes, the problem is not that Jim is whiney. I mean, he gets upset a lot, and gets lost in introspection and self-pity a lot, but the world he lives in is a fucking mess, there’s an alien ecology taking over the planet and the humans are really pretty helpless in stopping it. Society is a mess, most people are emotional wrecks, blah blah blah.

The problem is that even his friends screw him over. Early on,

he has a buddy and they explore sexuality together. His buddy goes off to telepath school. Later, he runs into his buddy in the form of a woman’s body, via the telepath technology. They hook up for an encounter, which makes sense at the time given their previous relationship, only to find out in the morning that the woman awoke in her own body to find someone had taken it out for a party and left it a mess. Bad enough to come home and find your renters threw a party in your house and didn’t clean up, imagine finding your body trashed. Making Jim a giant ass for being part of that, having to deal with the lady himself because his buddy is off in space again, and by the way the buddy kinda dumped Jim.

And that’s his friend.

But the real problem is, as you say, that the author agrees that it’s Jim’s fault.

On the incident with the kids, it’s not that part that I was thinking about. They have an after dinner–campfire–activity every night and one night all the others are too busy to participate and they tell Jim to handle it. He (rightly) says “I’m not a shrink, I’ve got little-to-no experience with the psychology of really, REALLY damaged kids…is telling me to “figure something out” really a good idea?” and they bitch and moan that he’s unwilling to take responsibility.

So he decides rather than have them laugh and sing songs and wake up in the middle of the night screaming, to have the kids just able to talk about their fears. And the kids do.

And then Jim suggests that they all make “scared” noises. Which is a wonderfully written and freaky scene. Then he suggests that they scream and make noise to get rid of the scary sounds. And they do…a lot. One kid can’t stop screaming and Jim grabs the kid and steps into a swimming pool or lake or something and the kid comes up sputtering and not sure whether to be mad for getting dunked or laugh because Jim just jumped in a swimming pool.

Overall–it’s not a bad idea. And Gerrold plays it as a net positive–at least the kids understand that there are ways of dealing with their terror OTHER than waking up at night screaming. So what do the other adults do? Berate Jim of course. For not consulting them before he tried his “amateur psychology”. :rolleyes:

If/when the next book comes out, I’ll certainly buy it. But if Jim doesn’t finally grow a backbone and tell everyone (including his girlfriend Lizard–who will invariably be rescued from the cliffhanger the last book ended on) to fuck off: he’s the only Cthorran expert around, he’s the only proven survivor and he’s the only one who hasn’t fucked his friends over, it’ll probably be my last.

BTW: Have you read the “Jumping To The Moon” series by Gerrold? It’s the only Heinlein-juvie wannabe that’s as good as Heinlein (largely because he doesn’t mimic Heinlein–he takes the structure of a Heinlein book, adds about 50% more characterization and other than one story bit–they have a trek across the moon that’s clearly inspired by “Have SpaceSuit”–tells his own story)

More like 15 years back – his son’s well grown up by now. (And yes, I remember when he wrote about the challenge of writing in “first person psychotic”, in fact the experience forced him to return to therapy.)

Wow was it really that long ago? Daaaaaaamn!

Is that the one that starts with a ride on a space elevator? I think I read the first one.

I haven’t really been following Gerrold’s work since the 90s. First he burned me on Chtorr, then I read the dreadfully bad “Under the Eye of God”, and after that I kinda got burned out.

[QUOTE=Fenris;17311012…
Also, I hope if he doesn’t finish it, he’ll at least tell us where the invasion is coming from. I had a theory back in the '90s that I no longer remember the reasons behind, that the Cthorr invasion is actually our far-future ecology coming back in time and invading us in the present.

… [/QUOTE]

I thought the same thing. But I really hope it’s not the case, because I hate time travel stories.

Agreed. The world is more interesting than the dorks we get stuck with. A short story anthology by various authors would be cool. And also won’t ever happen.

The “Jim gets jerked around” theme works pretty well as far as I’m concerned. It’s pretty common for people to abuse their underlings/coworkers by setting them up to fail or claiming credit for their successes or insisting, contrary to all evidence, that they are fuckups.

And that sums up the whole problem to me. Jim isn’t pychotic…he’s probably the only character in the series who isn’t. Everyone else…literally everyone else…ranges from semi-schizophrenic to sociopath (and there’s a lot of them*) to psychotic to any other mental illness you can think of. When the author doesn’t get that (regardless of what Gerrold’s intentions were) he’s not writing “first person psychotic”, he’s writing a “One sane man in a world gone crazy” story, there’s a problem. :slight_smile:

*Jim is pretty much the only major character who demonstrates anything resembling empathy on a regular basis.

The other two are even better except for a really dumb author’s anti-God/pro-atheist screed that was shoehorned in for about 5 pages.

Note that I have absolutely NO objections to atheism or characters that espouse it. But when the story comes to a grinding halt for a 5(?) page tract on how people believe in God just to push you around…how believing in God is like saying “I have an invisible friend named Jimmy who’ll beat you up unless you do what I tell you” (not exact quote, but very close), I’ve got a problem with it. I don’t know what was going on with Gerrold that day–Jehovah’s Witnesses interrupted him while he was writing or something?..but holy crap that scene was just jarringly bad and forced in.

However, one bad scene doesn’t make a bad trilogy, and the story just gets better and better. If you’re burned out on Gerrold, this could um…un-burn you? :slight_smile:

http://horror.org/david-gerrold-interview/

In this relatively recent interview he says the original first 4 will be republished prior to the next (AMFM) being published in 2015 in time for.
He says:

I’ll believe when I see it.

Of course, then we wait 15 years before then 6th book arrives on the shelves. :slight_smile:

[crosses fingers]

Based on that little snippet of an interview, any interest I had in the series being finished has dived into negative numbers. “First Person Psychotic?” Really?

Pass.

I only vaguely recall the books, but hasn’t the series been superseded by the Gears of War game franchise? (Which I haven’t played.)

The thing is, Jim has been through some hellish things, so I can see where Gerrold gets the idea that he is somewhat psychotic.

I mean, it starts with him getting a rude awakening on adulthood with his first encounter with the worms. Then he has to witness his coworkers get eaten by worms and flamethrower them to put them out of their misery plus kill the worms. Then he gets raked over the coals for having the balls to survive.

Next, he goes into a crowd trance to study from the inside and basically zones out for a couple days. Then his last mentor gets infected with spores and he has to assist the guy in suicide. Then he gets to walk into a worm burrow by himself naked without any weapons to rescue a child.

Then he is abducted by a cult of worm worshipping nutsos who brainwash him into participating and furthering their goals. When he finally gets free of them, he goes through a “therapy” session that is pretty whacked out.

Next, he goes to visit his mother, adopts some war babies, only to have the cultists show up and make a mess of things. So he goes to hunt them down and kill off the cultists.

Which gets him back into the army again, only to witness his team get slaughtered for no reason and some REMF hack gets all in his face over it.

Gets himself designated as an “Indian guide” instead of official officer, which means he has all the responsibility for being the expert but none of the authority to back it up. Gets sent on the balloon ride from hell, where once again his own agency is dicking him around and not telling him everything. Only to have the balloon crash in worm land.

Yeah, you really shouldn’t expect someone who’s been through all of that to be mentally stable.

Too bad everyone else he deals with is such a sociopath. That is really the part that is driving his “anger issues”.

As far as the storytelling, Gerrold has been jumping around with the timeline already. The whole experience of A Rage For Revenge has the parallels of his time with the cultists overlayed with the recovery therapy session thingy.

I happened to catch Gerrold at a convention last summer, and tried to ask him directly for the straight scoop on the book. He got testy, and bluntly said “all the rumors are untrue” about why the book has taken ~20 years to complete. I can’t shake the feeling he was unnecessarily defensive. I don’t know the truth.

I’m almost afraid to invest in this one even if it does come out. I’d like to see some progress on the rest of the series before I dig back into this again. The direction he’s taken is such a downer, man.

I’d guess it’s because he’s had a dozen or more people ask him the exact same thing at every public appearance for the past 20 years.

For what it’s worth, I interpret that “first person psychotic” comment to be a characterization of the state of the manuscript as it exists now, not as it’s intended to be on publication. Hence the need to go back and fit it together like a jigsaw puzzle during the editing process.

Re: It coming out in my lifetime. I’ll believe it when I believe it.

Yeah. The other thing going on is that everyone still alive in the Chtorr Earth is (or ought to be) pretty unstable, because the whole world experienced a series of disastrous plagues and the various social upheavals that went along with them. Everyone in that situation should be a mess with the ones that seem most normal by today’s standards being most likely to be barely controlling themselves. With that context, Jim’s occasional venting is probably a healthy coping mechanism.

I figure I’d have to develop a sense of humor about it and laugh it off. Yeah, it gets old, but what can you do? People are curious, they ask. They’re mostly not trying to be snide or derogatory, they’re curious. I certainly wasn’t rude.

For example, my last name spawns an obvious question. Practically everyone I meet (it seems) asks me that question as if it’s original or just for their own insight. I’ve long given up being annoyed by that and just reply with a brief response. I try to be good natured about it, it’s not like they know how tiresome it gets.

Similarly, some people have a name that always inspires the same obvious joke to everyone that hears it, as if it’s original and witty. You just have to accept that people think they’re funnier than they are. Getting mad doesn’t do anything but make you feel worse and make people think you’re a jerk.

If Gerrold really wanted to quash the rumors, he could always complete the book, dammit. I’ve been waiting 2 damn decades!

“Well, you’d better cut down a bit then!”

Agreement. If Gerrold didn’t want to get asked questions, he shouldn’t go to conventions. At very least, he should give some concrete answers somewhere, because, now, without answers, everyone is highly motivated to ask. If you can’t handle being asked questions, don’t be all fucking mysterious!