We’re about to start talking to our landlord. I have a suspicion we might face the same. We’ll stay if they reduce our space and cut the rent. If they want the same terms, f-that. We’re out.
You’re probably right, but that’s just so annoying. So the workers will get stuck with the added costs of commuting, and have less time for other things in life.
And they need to factor in how that will affect their business. I know if I was dragging my ass into the office every day just because my boss felt “irritated” that he had to pay rent, my productivity would almost certainly drop. When it becomes blatantly obvious that your employer doesn’t care about you, you start to not care about them. Do the absolute minimum needed to not get fired.
And since I’ve done my supervisor’s job on an acting basis before, I know exactly how far down I can drop my quality and quantity, and still keep my job. Although I think it might actually be physically impossible for me to be that bad. But I can be a lot worse than I am, for sure.
I should also point out that, even prior to COVID, I was spending most of my work day in online meetings. Most of my teammates were located in different cities from me, as were my clients, and my boss. That’s still true, and even if I go into the office, there’s exactly one person who might be there with whom I actually work on stuff.
So, other than going in for the opportunity to just see people, or because management wants us to, there’s nothing that I can do there that I can’t do equally as well from at home – I can make Teams or Zoom calls from anywhere.
I would think the issue is a liability one from the company’s point-of-view.
Most people do not want that info but, if some hacker gets it, the company may be on the hook for penalties and lawsuits. While you might be very good at maintaining security at home the company has a hard time guaranteeing all employees who have access to that info will be as scrupulous as you are.
Also, I have worked around traders and the rules for communication with clients is pretty rigid. For example:
It is more difficult for a trading firm to guarantee their employees are compliant with such things if they are working from home.
(To be clear: I work from home and have no desire to ever go back to the office. I am just suggesting some (not all) companies may have actually good reasons to bring people back to the office.)
But how am i putting the data at greater risk by being at home? I can use WhatsApp in the office. All the company’s data remains on servers controlled by its choices.
I also don’t think it’s really the real estate. A competent CEO knows a sunk cost when one looms into view.
I actually think it’s that people in the c-suite really LIKE being in the office, and having that physical reminder of their influence. As we began to talk about returning to the office, i heard it again and again from upper management. They returned to the office, interacted with all those other people, and it just FELT SO GOOD! The newer employees also like being in the office and having the opportunity to meet people and socialize with coworkers. It’s the experienced individual contributors, like me, who love working from home.
My job involves pretty much nothing other than PII in the form of legal documents, medical and financial records, and SSNs. I know nothing about computer security, but the VPN is supposedly secure. I recall it was a HUGE deal to get past “wet-ink” signatures. We - and many courts - are getting used to holding all manner of former “in person” procedures virtually.
I know very little about the financial sector jobs, but I would have to think at least some of what they do can be done remotely. And when we were in NYC in October, other than tourists, Wall Street was a ghost town on the weekday that we were there.
I rode the commuter train downtown for 25 years. The first day, when I asked a co-worker how to get to the station, he said, “Follow the lemmings.” I’m really curious as to how things will unfold for commuter systems, services that cater to workers, commercial real estate, and the like.
I agree. Power-lunches sound like fun.
I think this goes doubly for middle management. They liked their little fiefdoms and lost control when people went home making middle-manager jobs even less useful (and by extension less secure) than they once were.
[quote=“puzzlegal, post:25, topic:979966”
people in the c-suite really LIKE being in the office…
The newer employees also like being in the office and having the opportunity to meet people and socialize with coworkers. It’s the experienced individual contributors, like me, who love working from home.
[/quote]
This is what I don’t understand-you are talking about the benefits of working from home for you personally (no commute, etc)–but not the long term effects on the company.The C-suite managers are supposed to look at the long-term health of the company.
Sure, you, as an experienced employee, can produce good work without being in the office. But those newer employees need a helping hand , until they become as experienced as you.
The newly hired people will one day replace you, yet they have never met you. So how will they gain the level of experience and knowledge which you have? As long as you are still working, things run pretty smoothly.But 10 or 15 years from now, you will be retired, and those younger people might still be less qualified than you. That’s when the company begins to die.
When you chat in the hallway for 2 minutes informally before you walk into the meeting room for a formal presentation, new employees absorb a vast amount of knowledge.
This is certainly an issue we’ve faced at our ad agency. Junior people are suffering from less active training and coaching, as well as lacking the face-to-face interactions with colleagues. And, anyone who joined the agency after we all went home has struggled to feel like they’re part of an organization.
But we’ve been succumbing to the sunk cost fallacy all this time – we can’t stop now!
Hahaha! Well done.
The SEC (mostly) requires traders to be on a trading floor, with supervisors on hand, recorded phones, and an approved office. They loosened up these rules during the height of COVID, but they’ve been retightening them. You can set up a home office with oversight, but it’s expensive for the company.
As a owner, I have to say it’s a bit discomforting to not have eyes on your employees. But, over the past few years, it seems that all the work gets done. I assume they’re as productive as they need to be without being watched.
Of course they’ve met me. I show up for quarterly in-person meetings, and I’ve made a point of spending time with all my co-workers, especially the newer ones, at those. We have weekly “virtual coffee breaks”, a half-hour video chat where we talk about our lives outside of work, and sometimes work. We start our Monday huddle (also a video chat) with a couple minutes of “what did you do this weekend”, as well. I also work WITH those new employees on a regular basis. I train them, both formally and informally. I answer questions as they work. I do a formal review of much of their work. I ask them to do stuff for me, and explain why I need it.
Is it as good as seeing them every day? Probably not. But it’s a whole lot more than nothing. On days when I don’t have any scheduled meetings, I probably spend, typically, half and hour to an hour and a half talking with co-workers about our work.
At the start of the pandemic, when we were all hiding in our homes, I got regular inquiries from my boss and from HR about how I was doing, and what could they do to help. My reply was that my entire world had fallen apart, but work was going great. Work was a godsend to me at that time – it was a large fraction of my social life, as well as keeping me occupied and paid.
Agree. How can one look down on those in the cubicle farm from their doored office any more?
A side question re: real estate - I suspect the bottom has fallen out of the office space market, so what will come of all the suburban office space? There are “tech parks” with expansive spaces built for another time. Maybe they can be repurposed to mitigate the housing shortage in some areas?
I have read some about this.
Converting office space to apartments/condos is certainly being considered. Part of the problem is offices were not built to be homes. Mostly that is seen in windows and natural light. Homes want lots of it but offices were built with little of it.
It will be a challenge to convert these buildings to living space but, architects and engineers are clever and may find a way.
The other downside is the supporting infrastructure like grocery stores nearby. I think it is partly a case of, “If you build it, they will come.” But it is a chicken and egg thing. Which has to come first?
I’m on the board of an organization that is seeking a new HQ space as their current HQ is an accessibility and safety nightmare. We have been waiting since 2020 for prices to go down. No sign of this, even places that have been vacant for over a year.
The landlords do seem to have a “wait it out” attitude. I hope they lose that gamble.
I’ve been told by a friend in the medical field that they are getting a lot of requests from patients asking for a note from their doctor excusing them from working in-person at the office, or limiting their in-person office time to 15 hours/week. Reasons like pre-existing conditions causing an increased risk of Covid; too much stress caused by commuting; etc. And their doctors are willingly giving such notes.
Then the Americans with Disability Act (ADA) requires that the employer provide “reasonable accommodations” for this disability. Working from home most days is clearly such an accommodation. And since everybody has been doing this for the last couple of years, it’s hard for an employer to argue against this. Most won’t even bother.
So I expect this will become pretty common. Even an issue in union contracts or a benefit employers offer to hire the best employees.
Funny - just this morning a friend told me that he had a doc support his successful ADA petition to work at home to avoid the stress of the commute! (His job can very much be done completely remotely and he puts in far more hours than he is paid for.)
My daughter is a middle manager in the UK for a US company. She did work from home during COVID but has now gone back to 4½ days a week. It helps that she only has a 15-minute commute.
This was entirely her choice as she found remote working difficult. Some staff in her department work one day and others three, but everyone is expected to be there for one day at least.
Elsewhere in her company, they employ a number of call handlers, who are allowed to work 100% from home if they wish. They are now looking at downsizing the office.