Coming in from my earlier post:
“Don’t keep her suffering like this.” That was said out of emotion. I’m sure (at least I bloody well hope) she can’t feel anything by this point. It was a bad call, I apologize.
But the feeling, I think, is still valid.
Absolutely, but on behalf of her husband.
Her parents deserve to die for what they’ve done to her.
This isn’t exactly the same thing, because my sister was certainly conscious and aware, but after suffering her second debilitating stroke, it was determined that she could not swallow food or water, meaning she could not survive without inravenous fluids and a feeding tube.
She refused both, resoundingly. She could not speak, but she could respond to quesitons, and she made it very clear that she did not wish to continue to live under those conditions. (She had also, two years prior, filled out an extensive living will spelling out the fact that she did not wish any heroic measures to ever be used under any circumstances of any kind that might call for same. If it ever got that bad, let her go was her point of view.)
Denying her the feeding tube and fluids was not murder. She was refusing help, knowing it would result in her death.
Others are supposed to be able to make such decisions for us when we cannot. I feel very certain that if Terry were able, she would say she wished to die at this point, for many reasons, but certainly not the least being the lingering hell her entire family is going through because of her condition.
Yes.
It’s a criminal act if you stop feeding a child or a dog that is in your care.
Simpleton.
Sam
I cower before your intellectual might.
:rolleyes:
I think it’s important to remember that we don’t know exactly what Terry would have wanted. To those who respond that “no one would want to live this way”, well, that just ain’t true. There are many people, especially those of an especially religious bent, who might consider the denial of food and water to be murder/suicide, and who might prefer not to die that way. And given that we don’t know for sure what she wanted, isn’t it better to err on the side of continued life?
I have to say, I honestly don’t see, given the fact that she is almost certianly not suffering or aware of what’s going on, why her husband doesn’t simply turn her care over to her parents and be done with it.
Hasn’t her husband gone on to a new relationship, and fathered children in this new relationship? (Not that I blame him. His wife has been “dead” for many years and she ain’t coming back.) I sympathise with him, and I sympathise with her parents, who are deluding themselves that there’s still some of “her” in there.
Of course she should be allowed to die. This whole situation is a mess.
There’s a bit of a difference between a child/dog and a functional corpse, don’t you think?
So you would rather continue this protracted agony for a husband who will never have his wife again, for parents who will never have their daughter again, and for a woman who will never have herself again?
You would rather tie up time and hospital staff resources for a patient that cannot be healed?
You would have the court system visit and revisit the issue of “life” when there is merely an existence at question?
The worst part about folk like you is that the issue you cling to while voicing your opinion really isn’t your darling. Terry and her family are merely the platform used to extol your wonderful beliefs that you feel compelled to shove down everyone else’s throat. You want to be hooked up to machines until you’re 110? Have a ball. Kindly have the decency to let others manage their own families, problems, and grief without your meddling.
Pain is not a higher cognitive function, like speech. Pain sensation is more or less localized in the brainstem, more specifically the thalamus, if I’m remembering my neuroscience correctly.
Hmm, as a sort of legal question couldn’t the husband just prove that she did not follow all Catholic doctrine scrupulously before brain death to invalidate the pope opinion’s usefulness in the courtroom? Pretty shitty thing for him to have to do to get this over with but…
Where’s the death certificate?
I don’t think her parents consider her a “functional corpse”.
Because he believes that she would not want to live this way.
I made my father promise me he’d never do this to me, were I to fall into that situation. (Of course, I don’t have to worry, he thinks the parents are deluded too).
From what I’ve read, not only do her parents not want her to be taken off of the feeding tube, but they believe she will actually recover. Now that’s some powerful delusions. It’s been fourteen years, for crissakes.
Um, I’m not sure if this was directed at me or not, but I’ll give it a bash anyway. I think everyone is in agreement that this woman, whether you consider her “alive” or not, does not know, or feel, anything. Therefore, she does not suffer, no matter what is done. Her parents have made it abuntantly clear that they would suffer much more should she be allowed to die, and the husband, well, as you said, not matter what, he’ll never have his wife again, and he has, more or less moved on.
There are establishments that exist to care for just this sort of patient, I really don’t think her continued existance would result in anyone else not having the care they need.
And no, I would really rather that the courts not visit this issue at all.
And I’m not sure exactly what you concieve “folk like me” to be, or what issue you believe I’m clinging to, or what beliefs you think I’m “shoving down everyone else’s throat” (and I’m puzzled as to how my post could have been interpreted that way). I am all about people being able to decide their own fate, or appointing someone else to do so. But the thing is, we really don’t know what Terry would have wanted, nor who she would have wanted to speak for her in this situation. Therefore, absent any suffering, and given parents who want desperately to care for her, I really think the wisest thing to do is to give her parents custody.
I disagree. My husband, the person I chose to spend the rest of my life with knows things about me that my parents are clueless about. We have talked about a lot of things, one of them been our mutual desire to be left to die with dignity. Dignity been the key word here.
I am sure that I will not know what he’ll end up doing if I am ever in this poor woman’s same situation, but I’d like to think that my husband would do anything to comply with my wishes. I’d do the same for him. If you think that promises can be broken once the other person is not looking then we have very different outlooks on things, and we’ll have to agree to just disagree.
Sorry Lucretia. I failed to indicate that my post was basically directed at mks57 in that exchange with ultrafilter.
The last paragraph was my own mini-rant at the people who aren’t happy to have their own belief system. They just have to get out there and stick their noses into the affairs of others. “Folk like you” collectively was meant to embrace any and all who have been screwing with this and similar matters, rather than minding their own business.
But surely you agree that your marriage is not nessecarily the model for all marriages? I, like you, have discussed my wishes with my husband, and, what’s more important, have put them in writing, but I know of many marriages where, rightly or wrongly, the birth family is still the central relationship in one or both partner’s lives.
And I suppose I do disagree with you somewhat, in that what happens to me after I no longer feel or know anything is not really important to me. I want my survivors to do whatever comforts them the most. I think it’s rather cruel to expect that my family will comply with what I want when it cannot affect me, but may cause them pain.
Ah, okay. No offense taken, really.