I don’t have children, but I certainly do have people that I care about. If some ignorant savage attacks me or my loved ones I will certainly defend myself. I will try to avoid killing anyone ever…
If someone were to kill someone I care about, it is not my fault in ant way shape or form.
I still say that the people who answered the original thread, due to the fact that it was in reference to gay-bashing and rape, have thought this issue through. It is insulting to claim that any position that differs from yours hasn’t been thought through. It is especially insulting when you are talking in relation to people who have had to deal with assault… What happened to your daughter was awful, no one should have to go through that, but others have been through awful situations and come to different conclusions than you.
“I don’t have children, but I certainly do have people that I care about. If some ignorant savage attacks me or my loved ones I will certainly defend myself.” ← G 72
So, how far will you go?
“If someone were to kill someone I care about, it is not my fault in ant way shape or form. ← G 72”
I never said anything like it was your fault. I asked what you would do if the child ( okay a loved will do ) was attacked?
“I still say that the people who answered the original thread, due to the fact that it was in reference to gay-bashing and rape, have thought this issue through. ← G 72”
"As I was reading this thread, I was wondering why parents who have been to places where bad things happen to innocent children in their own yards very quickly (more so than in rural South Dakota, say…) "<------ Gus said… So, where is the Gay reference?
The rape reference? You said I had no experience, you forget my sister? The whole way through this I have just been asking if folks have thought through the absolute statements they were making. so far, so good. Except for you. Even with this last, you won’t commit to a final clear statement about the question as asked. Okay, no deal. I do not think that is a good plan IMO. When the engine quits on the airplane is not a good time to finally decide that learning to land without the engine is a good idea. That is my opinion.
We disagree. Okay. I am not attacking, criticizing a bit, yeah. Why is that so infuriating to you? Happens to me all the time. :: shrug :::
“I don’t have children, but I certainly do have people that I care about. If some ignorant savage attacks me or my loved ones I will certainly defend myself.” ← G 72
So, how far will you go?
“If someone were to kill someone I care about, it is not my fault in ant way shape or form. ← G 72”
I never said anything like it was your fault. I asked what you would do if the child ( okay a loved will do ) was attacked?
“I still say that the people who answered the original thread, due to the fact that it was in reference to gay-bashing and rape, have thought this issue through. ← G 72”
"As I was reading this thread, I was wondering why parents who have been to places where bad things happen to innocent children in their own yards very quickly (more so than in rural South Dakota, say…) "<------ Gus said… So, where is the Gay reference?
The rape reference? You said I had no experience, you forget my sister? The whole way through this I have just been asking if folks have thought through the absolute statements they were making. so far, so good. Except for you. Even with this last, you won’t commit to a final clear statement about the question as asked. Okay, no deal. I do not think that is a good plan IMO. When the engine quits on the airplane is not a good time to finally decide that learning to land without the engine is a good idea. That is my opinion.
We disagree. Okay. I am not attacking, criticizing a bit, yeah. Why is that so infuriating to you? Happens to me all the time. :: shrug :::
I answered the question that was asked, and refuse to play the scenario game. I’m not forcing my view on others, I’m not asking anyone else to think the way I do, and I’m not going to play stupid games involving suicidal serial killers or other ridiculous “what if” situations. I’ve told you how I feel and why, and that’s the end of the discussion.
:rolleyes: GusNSpot, I hope you do the same, and tell people that you’re prepared to slaughter any person who tries to attack them, so if they have a problem with that they can get the hell away from you. If I lived in a region where violent crime was more prevelant… your advice would still be stupid. I would think you were a psycho if you discussed your plans on how to deal with attackers with me for no reason. I would expect people to think I was two cans short of a six pack if I started annoucing to them that I wouldn’t kill someone to save their lives. In my world, the likelyhood of someone attacking you is so remote that it isn’t even worth contemplating.
Finally, regarding my viewpoint being a “minority” - here in Australia, it is against the law to use excessive force even if someone attacks you. My “minority” view is shared by our legal system.
If you didn’t want others questioning your personal beliefs or holding them up to scrutiny, you didn’t have to post them here.
This forum is called GREAT DEBATES. Which I presume means that if you post your beliefs here, you had best be ready to defend the reasoning behind them. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
How about this from THE JOURNAL OF TRAUMA: INJURY, INFECTION, AND CRITICAL CARE
“Injuries and Deaths Due to Firearms in the Home”
The Journal of Trauma: Injury, Infection, and Critical Care 1998;45:263-267
Arthur L. Kellermann, MD, MPH; Grant Somes, PhD; Frederick P. Rivara, MD, MPH; Roberta K. Lee, RN, PhD; Joyce G. Banton, MS
Anyone here personally defended themselves with a gun? Not me. Don’t own one, don’t need one. Too impersonal IMHO. Knives are where it is at. Handy for kitchen use too.
Why do they have to have a weapon to prove they’d defend themselves? Lots of non-weapons (by desigination, at least) can be used to defend one’s self, and usually aren’t the cause of accidental deaths. Take a nice, 5lb handweight for example, it’s great for building muscle, and in a pinch you could use it to cave in the back of an attacker’s skull if you hit them with it hard enough. However, not too many people are going to have their skulls crushed by accident just because there’s one in the home, right?
I don’t own a gun, and I probably never will, given I usually work with young children. I wouldn’t keep a knife, sword, chained mace or so on on my person either for that reason: the kids are more likely to be harmed by them than anyone else. But it doesn’t mean I’d stand by idly if someone attacked one of my students…
Blalron IMO, “Serial killer tries to force you to kill him” does not count as a great debate. I answered the question in the OP. If you want more, start your own thread asking people what they’d do in that situation. Your ridiculous scenario adds nothing to this debate.
GusNSpot, I am aware that you did not encourage Blalron’s line of questioning, and I did read what you wrote. When I said
I was not addressing you, but was making a general remark directed at Blalron and anyone else who may have been thinking along the same lines as him. I did see your post that accused me of not reading what you wrote before the boards came crashing down, and wanted to let you know that I had indeed read what you had to say - I was adding my voice to yours in that regard. When I addressed you personally, I put your name in bold at the beginning of the paragraph - just like I have here.
Blalron,
I’m wondering how extreme your viewpoint of putting incredibly ludicrous scenarios into Great Debates goes. :wally
Try these two:
You are an armed householder, who hears someone break in at night.
Naturally you riddle them with gunfire.
It turns out they were a desperate victim of rape, who was trying to get help from the gang still pursuing them.
You are an armed householder, who hears someone break in at night.
Naturally you riddle them with gunfire.
It turns out you have shot an unarmed burglar, but one of your bullets goes across the street and kills a child sleeping opposite.
Please give the outline conversation you have with the parents of these victims.
:rolleyes:
P.S. While you are speaking to these parents, your child gets hold of your gun and shoots himself dead.
Do your beliefs extend that far?
“Naturally you riddle them with gunfire.” -------- Of course owning a gun makes a person do this. I forget. :::sheesh::: pot/kettle? You and B… he he he
“It turns out you have shot an unarmed burglar, but one of your bullets goes across the street and kills a child sleeping opposite.” ---- You know people that do this? I wanna pimp them to Jerry Springer, I’ll make a fortune and can hire body guards… pot/kettle again. he he he
“P.S. While you are speaking to these parents, your child gets hold of your gun and shoots himself dead.”
Was raised in a home with 5 sisters and a brother, loaded guns all over the place, Dad always thought empty ones were sorta silly but I digress. Not one kid, of any age, did as you describe. Not even close. Not even a scare.
The weapons were used several times to repel boarders. We had a crazy kick in the front door while we were all sitting at dinner… Nice upper middle class neighborhood too. Was weird and scary. 12 gauge shotgun got his attention. No one was harmed. The gun, IMO, prevented that. Several other things happened also over the course of my life. So now you can say you know someone who has used a gun - without even firing it - to save the day. Dad did the hand to hand while I went for the gun as was directed by Dad. I was 15 … Baby sister was still in the high chair as I recall. YMMV
But… this thread is not about guns, it is about the willingness to use deadly force to save your self but more importantly, your children. So… the use of dumb bells is fine. I am asking ------ once again, ------ about those who will not ever even take a chance on killing another human – so they say – if they really mean it, or it was just ‘anti- gun/violence/knee jerk/ --rhetoric’ in a thread. People can believe that, I don’t care really, just wanted to know how many really would stand there and let their children die.
Why is this question always falling into the gun debate hole? :::: sigh ::::
