This story is a pro tennis continuation. There had been a story of Tennis match fixing not too long ago, Question is: Are pro sports able to be trusted as unfixed. Tennis and basketball are in question now. Can we trust the other sports? Does it matter to fans?
There’s been a lot of talk about matches being fixed in tennis over the last year, ever since a bizarre - but still unexplained - pattern of bets emerged in a match Nikolay Davydenko lost. A couple of players have talked about being offered money to lose on purpose, and Andy Murray said ‘everybody knows it happens.’ There haven’t been a lot of details about anything, and even in the Davydenko match, nobody’s been charged with any crime.
People are right to be wary about some situations involving a lot of money. With both money and drugs, there’s probably an underbelly to pro sports in general that many of us don’t really want to know about.
Then again, some people let their suspicions run away with them, or least run way ahead of the facts. I think that’s been the case with you in the Tim Donaghy threads, gonzomax. At this point I still think it’s more likely that there was no fixing in the Davydenko match - I think information was leaked that he was injured. But we’ll see what other details turn up, if any.
Sorry but you are wrong. My question was that did others wonder about sports being fixed. ? Just that. The Donaghy thread is in court for some reason. Could it be gambling stuck its smelly finger into the pie. Not my imagination. Two sports under fire. College bball has lot of incidents of fixing. Baseball has drugs, corked bats, grease balls and spitters. But as far as I know no fixing.
There’s no game fixing in the Donaghy scandal either. It’s point shaving, if that term also covers inflating the score.
I’ve never seen a sporting event and wondered if it was fixed. Do I wonder if that stuff goes on? Yes, just like I said I wonder if performance enhancing drugs are much more widely used than we hope.
Actually there is game fixing involved. Donaghy says games were set up to make playoffs go longer and for the teams that make the most money for the league ,to win. I will wait for the court case before I say it does not exist.
Yes, Donaghy has made accusations. It’s not what he’s been charged with.
Trust for NBA refs was already incredibly low, which is the reason some people are taking Donaghy’s remarks seriously even though there has been no evidence produced and I think it’s clear he’s just trying to save his ass. Ultimately I think fans are going to swallow their doubts about the league (and in this case, that’s what they should do) because they want to be entertained. What’s going on in tennis, if anything, is less clear, and since the individual players have more powerful and there aren’t as many big institutions like teams and owners, there are more ways for fixing and other manipulations to get in. But I do think fans trust what they’re seeing. For the most part, I think fans grumble about fixes when their team loses on a tough call or in a badly-reffed game - but they keep watching anyway.
What evidence can there be. Wimbledon is in the news for clear gambling anomalies. A person could see that something was wrong. Does that reach your level of proof. Donaghy is a long time ref who says he was involved in fixing games. Why does that not satisfy you. ? It makes me wonder. I have seen a lot of games that left me feeling something was wrong. That is not proof. If you want a case you try to get someone involved testify. You have that and say it is not good enough. What works for you. Our judicial system works on offering deals to people involved. This time it is not good enough ?
I am open minded. I do not say it was rampant. I am waiting for more. But I would not be shocked at all.
An actual instance of somebody throwing a match would be a good start.
Do you understand that “gambling anomalies” can indicate issues other than match fixing? Look at the article you linked to:
I also note that scary references to the Russian mafia appear in the lede of the story and then disappear.
I just discussed an instance where I think gambling irregularities were connected to leaked information and not players losing on purpose. Tim Donaghy also talked about instances where inside information was passed along, which allowed gamblers to get the results they wanted without paying somebody to screw up or take a dive. I don’t bet on sports, but if I was trying to make a lot of money this way, I think cultivating a source who could stay anonymous would be a lot safer than paying an individual to take a dive or lose on purpose. Gambling based on information that is supposed to be confidential is wrong and illegal, but doesn’t mean the players are corrupt and that the outcome of the games shouldn’t be trusted. Gambling is a huge industry, but I think the major sports are relatively safe precisely because they’re major. Smaller leagues and tournaments are probably more vulnerable.
Because I think he’s full of shit, for reasons I’ve discussed at length in other threads.
Agreed.
Testimony and evidence aren’t the same thing.
I’ve got nothing against offering deals to people who plead guilty. But it would be stupid to assume that someone is telling the truth just because they cop a plea.
When you use the verb ‘fixed’, are you referring to officials of the sport in question acting nefariously, or the players, or both? It’s a distinction to be made, as I think you will easily find many instances of players gambling on their sports. Just off the top of my head I can think of recent instances in all the major UK sports - football (the dodgy goalkeeper saga of the 90s with Segers and Grobbelar), rugby (Sean Long and other St Helens players) and cricket* (Hanse Cronje).
Officials fixing the game is a much more interesting question, as it doesn’t happen as often. I guess no one would be surprised to hear about dodgy goings on in the boxing game, but sports like football? Very doubtful. There is so much money wrapped up in the English Premiership that I am sure there are people who would like to fix it up. Referees are under such scrutiny here that it would be extremely difficult to get away with. Not to mention that if a UK referee was exposed as being bent, I would genuinely fear for his safety. The ramifications would be profound, the country would grind to a halt.
*There was a famous story in an England versus Australia test match of England getting bent over and abused in the first four days, prompting Rodney Marsh (Aussie player) to place a bet on England winning the match at 500-1. Ian Botham then played the game of his, or anyone elses, life and swung it round for England on the last day. THis anecdote is usually recounted as a mischevious tale, rather than with any match-fixing overtones.
I said in my last post that testimony and evidence aren’t the same thing, but as far as I know Donaghy has never actually testified about the alleged league-mandated fixing. He’s filed papers about it and I guess told the government about it.
That means nothing to you?
I don’t think he’s telling the truth. What else is there to say about it? I think it’s very likely (and in character) that he is lying in the hopes of avoiding a longer jail sentence or damages to the NBA, and unlikely that he’s really aware of a longstanding plot by the league to fix multiple playoff series.
Back to tennis for a moment, Davydenko crashed out of Wimbledon again today. He sucks on grass and didn’t even bother to play a grass-court tuneup. He said again that he never threw a match, and doesn’t believe there is any match-fixing going on in the sport.
http://www.cincinnatisports.com/forums/misc-sports/5590-tennis-fixing-scandal.html
This is the kind of thing he has to argue away.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/25/sports/othersports/25betfair.html?_r=1&em&ex=1211860800&en=57531e58f1ae82d1&ei=5087 &oref=slogin It is ironic that a on line betting site. Betfair. alerted several sports that they had a potential fixing problem. The discovered strange betting patterns without a good explanation. They include horse racing, soccer and tennis as sports with problems. The article does not list the others but says it may be in 15 sports.
If you look at that first link, you’ll see it’s about Davydenko, the same player we were already discussing. Something fishy absolutely happened. Almost a year later, though, I still don’t see evidence that favors a fix over what I suggested. And as McEnroe says at the end of your second link, it’d be insane for the nubmer four player in the world to throw a match that way. It’s hard to picture him making more money for throwing the match than he would for winning the tournament, never mind the millions he’s made in his career and would no longer be able to make if he was suspended for throwing a match.
That’s not ironic at all, actually. Bookies and gambling sites are the ones who get taken advantage of in a fix.
Yet it is gamblers who bribe the players into a fix. It remains ironic.
And it is the bookies who stand to lose the most when matches are fixed. I’ve missed the irony.
How could you. The very industry that is a huge gambling enterprise keeps such accurate statistics that it can recognize a fix that other gamblers have set up. Gamblers catching ,gamblers.
It’s the bookies that keep those stats, not the gamblers themselves.
So, it is a gambling enterprise that keeps good enough stats that it can ferret out fixes. A gambling business, not a congressional or police organization. Heavily and deeply ironic would you not agree.?