Some of the computers here are from another business from before. They presumably had Windows and Office installed legallly, but we have (for reasons unknown and blamed on everyone else) no documentation. I have no stickers, books, CDs.
Is there a way to see if these Windows 2000 Pro installations are legal? I understand that there are programs that can find the serial that was used to install the program originally. Does that prove anything? I understand that MS needs to sell the number/sticker really instead of the CD, but if the sticker is lost, is there any way to verify the number used? Could this pass an audit from MS? It would save us a few thousand dollars if we could go on the numbers on the machine instead of the stickers.
Right Click on the “My Computer” icon on your desktop, then select Properties. Right there in the middle of the box it will show you the ‘owner’ name used when installing the OS, and below it the Serial number that was entered.
This is on Win98SE, but I think it works the same on Win2K systems.
The serial number is irrelevant. MS doesn’t care if you use the same serial number to install Windows 2000 on 10,000 computers as long as you have the licenses to back it up. Every company that I’ve worked for that had more than 50 employees had a site license, in which case MS only gives you one CD key to use in your entire organization.
OEM licensing is indeed the sticker on the side of the PC that was placed on the box by the system builder. Older OEM copies - Win95 and Win98 - had a Cerificate of Authenticity (or COA) pasted to the front of the User’s Guide.
Retail licensing is a piece of paper (the COA) that comes in the box. In earlier versions of Windows, this was also pasted to the front of the User’s Guide and I think it is a separate piece of paper on retail copies of Windows 2000.
Site licensing and Open licensing comes in the form of a letter that looks something like an invoice that lists all the copies of your software and how many licenses you have for each. These may include one CD-key or multiple CD keys, depending on the organization’s licensing agreement with MS. For example, I once had a client with an Open license for XP Professional (one key) and 50 licenses for Office 2003 (50 separate keys) due to how MS gives away its sofwtare (this was for a non-profit and the software was donated by MS).
Without documentation - OEM stickers, COAs, or licensing letters - your business is in effect, operating outside the MS EULA and is subject to fines. Another company I worked for simply miscounted the number of machines running NT 4 they had sent out to the field and had to pay a $350,000 fine in addition to buying the needed licenses… There was no mailce or evasion on that company’s part - they had simply gotten confused - and it cost them dearly!
I would think you would need at the very least to have the invoice from the original purchase. This shoudl have the serial numbers of the comuters in question and if the supplier was a semi-legitimate OEM - Dell, HP, etc. - they could provide licenses for you. You might want to call MS and get the name of your local MS rep and see what they suggest as far as getting licenses. Most MS reps I’ve known were pretty cool about helping a customer out in similar situations - such as when one company buys out another and the IT guys find something like this, or if an IT guy quits or gets fired and the new IT guy comes on and finds out that the whole company is unlicensed.
In any case, I would seriously get on this ASAP. It’s all well and good to have some… ahem “unlicensed software” in your home - after all, MS is hardly gonna bust down your door for one unlicensed copy of Winodws 2000, but it’s serious when a business gets involved. You have to document everything and make sure it’s 100% legit. Or it will cost you.
So how does MS know (and proove) that there was a number of PC’s that has slipped through the system unlicenced? Especially since the company that was fined did not even know that there were unlicenced PC’s.
It’s called an audit. All of our PCs at work must have the OEM-placed Win200 or WinXP Microsoft sticker attached to the outside of the case, and each serial number on each sticker must be identical to the one on the installed software.
Yeah, what Duckster said. Someone from the Business Software Alliance (BSA) will come in and count the number of PCs you have running Windows and check that against the number of OEM, retail and\or open\site licenses you have. If you don’t have licenses for everything, they typically give you a grace period to “get legit” - unless you are so obviously out of compliance that they feel something not right is going on. A lot of used computer places have been nabbed for “hotloading” PCs - selling used PCs with fresh (unlicensed) copies of Windows on them. Obviously, they tend to come down much harder on that than just some random company that’s missing 10 Windows licenses.
Also - just for the record - although “BSA audits” are usually associated with Microsoft, several other companies (Apple, Macromedia, Symantec, Adobe, VERITAS, Network Associates and more) are also members of the BSA. So if the BSA comes knockin’, you best make sure that you’re OK with Acrobat, Photoshop Symantec\Norton Antivirus, Backup Exec and any other BSA-member licenses as well.
As a side note, if your employer can remember where they got their software, you can contact that reseller to get your licensing information.
Again this is assuming you have a volume license. If the Product ID you have on your system (the one T-bonham told you how to find) includes the letters OEM, that means the software came prepackaged on your systems. If this is the case it is best to have the manuals and cd’s but there’s not a lot you can do if you’ve lost them.
If your copies are retail you will have to have a unique installation for each system. In most medium to large companies, 99.9% of the software will be volume license but it’s good to ask. Newer retail software have a technology called Product Activation to make it more diffiecult for you to install a retail copy on more than one machine, as per the End User License Agreement.
Rex did an admirable job explaining Open licensing.
Now if your company is larger and has a Select license, someone in your organization already knows about it and how many systems you have installed. Under a select license you have to report your usage annually to make sure you meet with the terms of the license. So were this the case, you may have someone there who knows about what’s installed where.
As for Mr 2001’s question… BSA audits can happen if someone reports your company as violating EULA terms and conditions. Again this isn’t specifically Microsoft but an outside entity that represents many software companies.
If the BSA were to show up ay my door, what law or contract requires me to let them come in to do an audit? Do they usually get a court order first? If I refuse, what will happen?
Well, nothing is compelling you to agree to an audit. From ths site:
“The first question a client faced with a BSA audit usually asks is what authority the BSA has to conduct an audit. In the absence of an unusual license agreement giving the software company this right, the answer is that the BSA has no power to compel audit cooperation unless they file a lawsuit. However, if the BSA has reason to believe that infringement has occurred and their audit request is refused, it is likely to color their thinking. On the other hand, if the audit results do not match the BSA’s expectations based on information they have which is correct, this may help them if a lawsuit is filed. No audit is better than a sloppy, incorrect or untruthful audit.”
However, if you don’t agree to an audit, the BSA can file a lawsuit against you to force you to submit to the audit, as they represent the copyright owners. From this site
*“If the copyright owner brings a civil action against you, the owner can seek to stop you from using its software immediately and can also request monetary damages. The copyright owner may then choose between actual damages, which includes the amount it has lost because of your infringement as well as any profits attributable to the infringement, and statutory damages, which can be as much as $150,000 for each program copied. In addition, the government can criminally prosecute you for copyright infringement. If convicted, you can be fined up to $250,000, or sentenced to jail for up to five years, or both.” *
There’s also another factor. If you don’t comply with an audit, there’s the negative publicity angle as well.
In general, if you had nothing to fear for an audit, why would you deny an audit?
I worked for a company once that had several audits due to disgruntled ex-employees. As far as I am aware they were never found to have any non-licened software in use.
You would deny an audit because complying cost you money even if you pass. Somebody must be assigned to find the licenses check that BSA is performing it correctly.
I see. And since a law abiding person has nothing to fear from a police search of their home or vehicle, we should just throw out that pesky Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution, right?
Well, first of all the Fourth Amendment only applies to the government and not to private companies. Note that if I break in to your house looking for illegal software I would be charged with “breaking and entering” not “violating your fourth amendment rights”.
Secondly, I don’t know why this surprises anyone. Does the word “DMCA” ring any bells?? Remember the Napster\Kazaa users getting cut off by their ISPs because the RIAA suspected them of trafficking in copyrighted material? Remember the Russian arrested for hacking Acrobat? How about the new “Harry Potter and the Night Vision Glasses” movie? Hell, the RIAA even has it’s own SWAT team.
I wasn’t implying that the Fourth Amendment protected you from a BSA audit, I was commenting on the flawed reasoning of the idea that “If you have nothing to hide, what is the harm in allowing someone to look?”
I firmly believe that if a corporation or individual asserts that you are violating their rights, the burden of proof should be on them. No one should have to “prove themselves innocent”, it’s not supposed to work that way in this country. That’s really geting away from GQ territory though.
Rights to the operating system don’t go with the computer. If the previous owner (company you bought them from) had a site license, the site license didn’t transfer to your company. You have the right to buy the hardware but not the operating system. Your company needs to license those computers.
Even individual licenses don’t transfer with the computer. You can transfer hardware you own, but Microsoft (and, to be fair, other software vendors) doesn’t believe you have the right to transfer your license or right to use to someone else. And they have the BSA to bully anyone who disagrees.
In their view, you are supposed to remove the OS from the sold computer.
go to www.belarc.com
Download the free hardware and software inventory tool labeled “free download” at the top. It will list all software install and license keys
Huh? If you have a retail license for a Microsoft product (called FPP for “Full Package Product” in “Microspeak”), you most certainly are allowed to sell the computer 1) with no operating system installed, and thus keep your Windows license, or: 2) with an operating system installed and thus lose your license. Of course, technically you’re not “losing” it, you’re “selling” it but you get the idea. Look at any web page for a surplus auction - you’ll see tons of older computers being sold with wiped drives - because the company that originally owned them retained their Windows licenses (well, and for security reasons too).
You may also sell just the Windows license, although that sets off warning sirens like you wouldn’t believe with the BSA. However, it’s not uncommon for a larger company to accidentally “overbuy” CALs and resell the leftovers.
OEM licenses are bound to the piece of hardware they were originally sold with and cannot be transferred to a new machine, period. Thus you cannot buy a Dell preloaded with XP and legally install the OS on any machine but that one particular Dell PC. If you replace the Dell, you cannot use the OS CD (and\or key) to install the OEM version on any other PC, nor can you retain the original Dell license if you sell the PC. This is because you didn’t buy the OS, Dell did.
You are correct about site\Open\Select licenses, however. That’s a “per organization” license and cannot be transferred.
They have a certain level of evidence before they suggest an audit. Usually proof of the company selling pirated software, selling OEM copies improperly or multiple reports of false usage.
Sure you can say “no i won’t permit an audit”. And at that point they get the law involved and eventually get a permit and all that.
The fact I was making is, liberal chest beating aside, if someone is not guilty, why should they act that way. And yeah yeah yeah all the “well that’s what the NAZI’s did” and all those types of ridiculous comments aside, I wouldn’t have a problem with it if I knew I was innocent and had the records to prove it. Just like if a police officer pulled me over as part of a blanket drunken driving sweep I would have no problem andwering his questions and doing the breathalizer if I knew I was innocent.