The United States is the world’s largest manufacturer. In 2007, U.S. manufacturing output was 1.8 trillion dollars, or about 12% of GDP.
A little further googling does show that in 2011, China is expected to take the #1 spot from the U.S., whose manufacturing output has stayed relatively constant, while China’s has shown massive continued growth.
Very true Great Antibob, Germany has found the way around it, we should learn from them! They are also very progressive, and support alternative fuels on a national level, which we will not do until our reserves dry up. While Germany has a progressive income tax rate, it can be very high, even higher than here in the USA. I for one would not like to pay 40%. And they even add a special ‘solidarity surcharge’ for higher incomes. Their tax laws are much simpler than here as well. I wish the boneyards of our great cities could manufacture again. After WWII, we helped rebuild Germany, we did it back in the glory days of the USA, we need to go back to those basics.
The list of items actually manufactured here in the USA is very small. I tried very hard to purchase a TV made in here… couldn’t find one. It’s true that the US is the world’s largest manufacturer, but actual manufacturing jobs are a small % of the overall economy. We’re great at making planes, and military items. Truth be told, one in six factory jobs in the US have vanished since 2000, and that is getting worse.
Don’t confuse output, with jobs. Ask the 406,000 new unemployment claims submitted last week.
Good point. There is still considerable manufacturing, but as far as the private sector is concerned, all big ticket items such as oilfield equipment and components (a sector this Administration is trying to kill off ASAP - along with the jobs that go with it), agricultural machinery, construction equipment and so on. What’s not included in the list are non-food related consumer products, other than health & beauty aids (toothpaste, deodorant, etc).
“People like you”… you don’t know me or anyone here, and start after the person when you don’t agree. Is that how you hold conversations in the real world? :eek:
I actually do speak from experience, and have worked for a union in New Jersey for many years. While going to school, I loaded shelves at night working for the local A & P Company, and was forced to join the union and give them a weekly ‘fee’ for the privilege. In return, I got a wage that was given to me based on negotiations and not how well I worked. The union bosses were all riding around in limos, suits, and looked like they had not missed a meal in years! I saw where my union $ went. Bad workers couldn’t be fired because it took months of negotiations and meetings and paperwork. Many were fired, and forced to be rehired where in the ‘real’ world they would have been shown the curb. HECK NO I don’t want people to make what they do in China, but I don’t need a union, it has taken me a while but working hard, and proving my worth paid off, not a contract.
Also medical devices and pharmaceuticals. We lead the world in manufacturing those items. If you go to a hospital you won’t find any problem finding lots of things made in the U.S. Which is actually pretty nice for our manufacturing industry – they are expensive and sophisticated.
YOu know how earlier you were telling us that if we want higher taxes, we need to vote in politicians who will raise taxes? Physician, heal thyself. If you don’t like your union leadership, take the moderate measure of using your union vote to vote in different leadership, or the more radical step of organizing a drive to decertify the union. It can be done.
The fact that your fellow workers didn’t take either of these steps indicate that your view may have been a minority view, and that most of the workers appreciated that higher wage negotiated for them by the union.
Considering all I’ve heard are the typical ‘BLAR BLAR UNION BAAAAAD!’ rhetoric from you, complete with a misinformed view of reality, I’m fairly sure I was accurate. Are there bad and corrupt unions? Of course. Does that mean we should abolish unions completely? Well…
I’ll make you a deal. I’ll take your side in abolishing unions if we can hold corporations to the same standard. Oh, look, Enron was corrupt so all corporations should have their charters revoked! It’s only fair, right?
I’ve worked for two unions. One was bad, one was good. That’s life.
There is that aspect of it - but there is another part of it too.
Legislation is a function expressly provided in the state constitution. Laws that regulate other meetings cannot interfere with the constitutional privileges and responsibilities of elected legislators. And since these constitutions typically state that legislation must be made according to rules set by the legislature itself, this is the controlling rule even if it isn’t explicitly stated in the legislation.
Wait…something here does not compute.
We could learn from Germany, except we don’t want to pay higher taxes. Sorry to say it, but you seem to be contradicting yourself.
We can’t just mime the stuff we like and dismiss the stuff we don’t, especially when it seems like you can’t explain why they’re “better”. WWII and the aftermath is NOT an explanation. The American manufacturing base was just fine until recently (for a given value of recently), and there appears to be a complex mix of reasons for the stagnation, of which the unions are only a part (and perhaps only a small part, except perhaps in the automobile industry).
Forget unions. Look at our tax policy. Sure, FEDERAL tax rates seem progressive, but OVERALL taxes (including local and state) in the US are flatter than just about any other developed country. Does the stagnation of education have anything to do with our workers inability to compete? Have skyrocketing health costs contributed to the situation? It’s unreasonable to assign all the blame on unions.
I say, let’s all learn a lesson from good old Ronald Reagan. We can’t afford all those tax cuts? Ok, let’s start raising taxes to actually pay for the commitments we want. It seems like a majority of Americans like their Medicare, education, and even defense dollars. Well, it’s time to pay the piper. You don’t get something for nothing, and it’s clear most Americans would rather keep their their goodies than lose them.
You cited the case of Austin, TX. Well, as a Texan, I can tell you abolishing unions isn’t a magical cureall. Texas has very few unions, yet is facing a gigantic budget deficit. Even assuming no budget growth (i.e. reducing spending per capita), there’s a shortfall of $15B. That’s in one of the most pro-business (note that I didn’t state pro-market) states in the country, with little union influence.
Rick Perry’s suggestions of cutting “non-teaching” staff and claiming state cuts weren’t responsible for layoffs? Well, you could cut ALL non-teaching staff in the state of Texas and still be short on the budget. So, no more bus drivers, janitors, cafeteria workers, security, coaches, principals, superintendents, aides, etc and still need to make up money.
Um - it’s a recession. Every state has taken a hit to its revenue.
Sure, but our lovely Texas governor is trying to keep the blame for teacher firings local. According to him, it’s entirely a ‘local’ decision to layoff any educators and that the state has not directly called for any layoffs.
Think of it this way:
VP: Hey, I’m sorry, but due to decreasing revenue, we’ll have to cut your budget by 40%.
Manager: Ok. I’ll accept that. I guess I’ll have to start planning on the layoffs.
VP: What? No? We haven’t called for layoffs. You’ll have to cut 40% but any decision on layoffs is your responsibility. I suggest you start budget trimming by scrimping on office supplies and turning off the lights on weekends.
When union denisty was at its highest? And workers had the power to stop their jobs being shipped overseas? When the American labor force wasn’t made to compete with third-world and developing nation labor forces?
Blaming unions for manufacturing jobs going overseas is like blaming the wife for the beating she took from her husband.
“If that bitch didn’t ask for so much shit, I woudn’t have had to crack her upside the mouth.”
The *companies *that moved the jobs there are to blame. Sure, they made more money in the short term because their labor costs went down, but now the Americans who in the past would’ve bought those manufactured goods now are either jobless or working for a fraction of what they once were since they’re now in direct wage competition with third-world and developing nation workforces. And they can’t afford to buy those goods in the same quantity as they once were. And the economy tanks. And people blame the middle class workers because they “make too much” or “want too much.” And the organizations whose very existance is to stand up for middle class workers get blamed for being special interest.
Well as a middle class worker, I’m glad there are “special interests” looking out for someone besides industries, corporations, wealthy individuals, etc. And I hope those “special interests” can re-gain the teeth they had back in (as you said) “the glory days of the USA.”
Unions aren’t just about negotiating wages and benefits and whatnot. They lobby for legislation that benefits middle class workers. With the decline in union membership/dollars, you’re seeing an increase in legislation that benefits corporations and the rich, but not the middle class. Why do you think the rich keep getting richer, while the middle class continues to shrink and have less money?
Whatever way you swing the bat, after the shenanigans in Wis. the democratic union base is frothing at the mouth for Nov. 2012 to come around. Expect a huge showing of union voters and expect all of them to lacquer the republican base during the election. Obama is going to capitalize on this for the next year and a half and this will - with some certainty - invigorate his campaign.
I can see David Axelrod and David Plouffe wringing their hands with delight over this, expect the Obama campaign to capitalize on this as the driving force against the GOP establishment as well as their little red headed step child, the tea party whiners.
I will be actually performing this afternoon at a benefit for the Wisconsin 14 in downtown Madison, most of the major Dem and Progressive players will be there. I’ll try to get some first hand info on the situation and post as I can later.
Agreed. For two years, the Republicans/right-wing have demonized the Democrats/left-wing for ramming bills through without honest debate; for not being willing to compromise; for playing parlor tricks to get things passed; for doing things that a majority of people didn’t want; etc.
So. Voters respond in kind. They push Republicans into office with, I assume, the assumption that those very things the Democrats were demonized over would STOP. There would be more moderation, honest debate, compromise, less partisan governance, less tone-deaf governance.
But nope. The Republicans get into office, and before the third month of their “control” is over, they’re doing some of the most extremely partisan, drastic, tone-deaf, uncompromising legislating and governing many Americans have ever seen. Why didn’t these clowns play nice for two years, lay low, build on their gains, maybe take back the WH, and go from there? Talk about premature ejaculation.
Not that I’m complaining. But sheesh, this isn’t just bad policy they’re playing. It’s bad politics.
It’s **Horrible **politics, I’m surprised with the level of transparency that they had the cajónes to do it the way they did. Once it was split apart to see the ugly interior it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the smarmy politicking that went on. Boo.
Sigh… Again, personal comments are not needed here. Misinformed? Rhetoric? Accurate in judgment? All you heard? Make me a deal? My view or opinion is well… mine. Everyone has experiences, and if you want we can all Google facts on both sides of the table about pro/con of unions. It’s like people from every part of the country believe THEIR BBQ is the best. (Ask any Texan) This thread was started asking if the final vote to strip the bargaining rights was legal. I guess it was. TGIF
You’re quite wrong again!
Texas BBQ is way better than what we have here.