The German teacher at my high school was a descendent of Rebecca Nurse.
I’m descended from Rebecca Nurse (and Judge John Hathorne). You have to love history’s little ironies.
Are you for real? Are you dead-set seriously offended by such a flippant remark?
Wow.
I mean, WOW.
And then you came back with all those rationalisations as to why you have the right to be offended.
Triple WOW.
Now I HAVE heard it all. 
You know, I can see where “burning them at the stake” could be offensive from a moral point of view, just like, say, “necklacing”. (That’s where you put a tire around someone’s neck and set it on fire as a means of execution). But death by fire is horrific for anyone regardless of religion. You could just stand up and say “Hey, I’m offended by that remark because people really have been burned to death and I find that sort of thing really horrible to think about.”
Of course, then you go on to talk about ripping peoples’ heads off and feeding them to lions. Gee, wonder if Roy Horn’s friends and family would find a remark about feeding a person to a large feline offensive? Oh, you didn’t mean it personally? Well, it’s not a pleasent thought when you get past the “hyperbole” and into the reality.
Yes, **Papaveraceae, **I think you are being overly sensitive to Halloween imagery. While I respect your right to rant about it here, can’t say I agree with your stance. Personally, I find depictions of Christ on the cross that are really realistic - the ones with the writhing, agony-twisted blood-streaked man nailed to some boards - to be pretty freakin’ creepy but I understand why some Christians have them and display them. Halloween and the Pagan Samhain and the Central American Day of the Dead all happen pretty much simultaneously on the calendar, and they all deal with death, and they all have some pretty macabre imagery, including monsters, ghosts, skeletons, and yes, witches, including witches depicted as hags and crones. I get the sense you were offended because it’s your “Christian supervisor” and not so much the object in question.
HOLD ON.
Your boss NEVER said that anyone should be burned at the stake. Your boss said that A DOLL should be burned at the stake, in an attempt to be humorous.
Am I missing something here?
That sounds like witch talk. BURN Munch!!! BURN THE WITCH!!
Marc
Well, I fail to understand why ANY Wiccans would get their robes in a knot over Halloween iconagraphy. The conventional witch stereotype–an old lady with warts and a peaked hat, with a familiar spirit disguised as a housecat sitting behind her on a broomstick–stems completely and totally from Christian sources and has absolutely nothing to do with neo-pagans.
Unless the OP has signed a pact with Satan to gain unholy power in exchange for her immortal soul, has cursed her neighbor’s cows with disease, and feasts on the flesh of infants at the witches’ Sabbat, I don’t see where she has a basis for being offended.
Anyone got a duck?
Hmmmmm…
I’m thinking of starting a new religious movement called “thugga.” Those who follow this movement will be called “thugees.” The religion will be devoted entirely to peaceful coexistence with all of God’s creatures and, despite the choice of names, will have nothing whatsoever to do with the former secret organization of robbers in India, who were devotees of the goddess Kali and who always strangled their victims.
I’m sure nobody will object to me calling my new religion whatever I want. I will, however, be extremely offended whenever I hear somebody referring to a criminal as a “brutal thug” or the like, and will mention this to anybody I talk to. Even though I know that this sense of the word “thug” refers to the ancient Thugee cult and not my new religion, I will nevertheless take it upon myself to change the English language so as to avoid offending my newfound sensibilities.
Oh, and any reference to the so-called “Campaign Against the Thugs,” wherein more than 3000 of them were imprisoned or hanged, will also cause me to be offended. Even though that Campaign was dealing with a totally different group of “thugs” with which I claim no association, I have personally been persecuted in ways vaguely reminiscent of that ancient Campaign and therefore feel justified in taking umbrage at its mention. Besides, saying that ANYONE deserves to be “hanged like a thug” is highly offensive to me. It shows just how incredibly insensitive that person is.
Warmest Regards,
Barry (Chief Thug and Lord High Bottlewasher)
I’m thinking the proper response to such a comment is something like making a face and saying, “Gaaah!” That is, quick, visceral freaked-outed-ness is a lot more persuasive than a Sensitivity Lesson. If your supervisor realizes that such comments really and genuinely disturb you, then if she’s a decent person, she’ll quit making them. But if she suspects that you’re hopping on the Oppression Train (as, sadly, far too many pagans do), looking for something your white middle-class self can be a minority about too, she’s unlikely to take your concerns seriously.
Another response, if you’re more annoyed than freaked out, would be a flippant, “Careful – if she hears you say that, she’ll turn you into a newt.” This approach keeps the doll firmly in fantasyland: people accused of witches during the inquisition were neither green broomstick-riders, nor were they sorcerers capable of newtification.
The only way I can see bringing religion into it is the offhand. When Hallowe’en comes, there’s a good chance someone in your office will ask you what your plans are. That’s the time to tell them that you’re going to a Samhain ritual; when they inevitably ask what the hell you’re talking about, you’re perfectly entitled to give them an explanation. And you can even shrug apologetically and mention that the green witch-doll in the office kind of icks you out. They’re a lot likelier to respect your position if they have to draw it out of you than if you rip their heads off for an innocent joke.
Daniel
Why not counter with Halloween decorations of your own? You could do like one Pagan friend of mine did and put up some spooky teeth.
::EvilDuck sits on scales::
This thread makes an interesting parallel with the ‘Christian Fundamentalists and Halloween’ one.
That’s a fair cop.
You know, I read this thread this morning, shook my head and went away. But it’s been bugging me.
See, a few months ago, a young cousin of mine committed suicide by hanging. A couple weeks ago her father, in his grief, did the same. I wasn’t particularly close to either of them, but I am understandably upset by these deaths. So yesterday, I’m driving somewhere and noticing everyone’s Halloween decorations, and one house in our neighborhood is decorated with stuffed dummies hanging by their necks from trees. I can’t tell you how upsetting I found that to be. Yes, even offensive, although a year ago I would not have found it so.
These people did not set out to offend or upset me. They could have no idea that the sight of shoes swinging at eye level is one I find to be personally agonizing.
So back to the OP: If you define yourself as a witch, by whatever definition, but fail to identify yourself and make clear your expectations of how witches should be regarded, how can you find offense in someone’s offhand - and obviously humorously intended - comment? It’s not cruelty, it’s not discrimination, and it’s not personal. To make it so says more about you than the so-called offenders.
Wow. I express my feelings and I get 50+ (not counting mine) responses.
Guess I really threw a match out there. 
I enjoy writing as a form of getting out my frustrations. Sometimes this means that I freak over comments that my boss has said and later (after this wonderful catharsis of writing) get over it, and I know bloody well that in this job I won’t be “out of the broom closet” Yippee!
The doll was just the creepiest thing ever, in a Chucky kind of way. The thing was hung from the ceiling and was STARING at me. It is now hanging way down at the end of the hall, far away from little 'ol me. One of the nice people with whom I work was an angel and moved it for me (I am short, and couldn’t reach the damned thing. And I didn’t want to touch it. Yik.) The teasing that I endured was and is worth it.
Someone wondered why I would be in a job where I felt uncomfortable. I am really beginning to wonder that myself. It is a choice between regular decent pay and benefits, or a new business that may go under, and I wont get paid as much or have benefits. It is a question of stability and my responsibilities.
Regarding the comments on my sensitivity~
This I will completely own up to. I am sensitive. Especially when it comes down to violence. Remember that spot in Braveheart where Mel used an elk horn or something to break his enemies jaw right open? I puked. Seriously. It took a few years before I was ready to see that again. My best friend laughed at me (nicely, or she wouldn’t be my friend) when we went to see Underworld and bits of it really grossed me out. I so didn’t need to see that.
And dear (insert deity of choice) I am going to go see Kill Bill
I think I will bring a pillow to bury my head in.
I’ve been told before that I need to grow a thicker skin in regards to violence and other icky things. No thanks. I like my self the way I am. If that means that I cry when I see the little starving babies on TV, when I read about a 2 year old who has had to survive on mustard and muffin mix for two weeks I burst into tears, if I read about innocents who die in what ever genocide we are reading about in the history books in school and I have nightmares for months, well. So be it. It’s me, and I rather like the uncalloused version.
Honestly, if my bosses comment was said in a Monty Python context, where they are clearly making fun, I would have laughed. I laughed at the skit, I bought the game, I figured out the code so I could see the witchy-poo naked. I even tried to make pieces out of the Black Knight.
Mr. B
My name doesn’t have anything to do with the Wizard of Oz. I honestly didn’t like the movie much. For some reason I didn’t find it thrilling. DISCLAIMERThis has nothing to do with the portrayal of witches in that movie. The wicked witch was funny and had really cool tights.DISCLAIMERI did wish that I had troops of flying monkeys. I can see where they would come in handy.
jayjay is more correct on the origins. I love poppies, I like to garden, and even though i have never tried opium or any of its derivatives (the illegal ones, anyway), there is indeed an opium reference.
I’ve been to Samhain ceremonies where it was part of the rite to read out loud the names of the people who died during the burning times. I am of two minds regarding this practice. One, I bet you those god-fearing Christians would be spinning in their graves had they had proper ones instead of just being piles of ashes and bones. Two, gee. It’s nice to be remembered and cherished for what you went through instead of reviled.
That isn’t the rite that I follow every year. I instead choose to remember my dead and set out a meal for them, and light candles in the windows to show their spirits a safe haven until the gates between this world and theirs are closed for the year.
I love carving up pumpkins too.
As for the idea that
I don’t have any cites at the moment, but…wow. :shakes head:
Suffice it to say that I believe that you, and others who have said this, are wrong.
I will have to get back to you on that one. It will take a while to write all of my ideas up, and I do have to work a bit today.
Whahuh?
Are you saying you believe the “witch stereotype” cited above is a direct reference to neopagans? I’m not following that at all.
If you know that you react badly to violence and are overly sensitive to it, can I humbly suggest that you might want to be more discriminating regarding the movies you see? I don’t think anyone is going to confuse “Kill Bill” with “The Care Bears Movie” as it pertains to violent content.
I will reiterate what others have said: You seem to be going out of your way to make yourself uncomfortable in many situations. It’s one thing to know that snakes creep you out. It’s another thing entirely to have that knowledge and then intentionally spend as much time as possible in the Reptile House at the zoo.
OK, you’re sensitive to suffering, and that’s fine. You don’t like the creepy doll, and that’s fine. But I just don’t buy that your supervisor’s joke upset you because of the implied violence, not because it offended your quasireligious beliefs. How can burning a doll at the stake be on a par with “little starving babies on TV”?Do you swoon if you see Bugs Bunny hit Elmer Fudd on the head with an anvil?
It seems to me you that you have a case of “I want to be different than you, and I want you to treat me special because of it.” Doubly so because it applies to an authority figure.
Just remember, we eat drama queens for breakfast around here.
Char-grilled…on toast.
Whahuh?
Are you saying you believe the “witch stereotype” cited above is a direct reference to neopagans? I’m not following that at all.
If you know that you react badly to violence and are overly sensitive to it, can I humbly suggest that you might want to be more discriminating regarding the movies you see? I don’t think anyone is going to confuse “Kill Bill” with “The Care Bears Movie” as it pertains to violent content.
I will reiterate what others have said: You seem to be going out of your way to make yourself uncomfortable in many situations. It’s one thing to know that snakes creep you out. It’s another thing entirely to have that knowledge and then intentionally spend as much time as possible in the Reptile House at the zoo. **
[/QUOTE]
No, I’m not saying that it is a direct reference to neo-pagans.
Why does that caricature of an old woman on a broom stick exist?
The example that I was going to use has much more to do with the Christian church(es), in it’s mission to convert the masses, creating “boogie” men and women out of normal aspects of native religions. Or doing the reverse, and replacing female aspects with, say, the Virgin Mary. Nice, clean, someone you can look up too.
I like your analogy with the snakes. It actually illustrates part of my feelings regarding violence quite well.
Snakes, real, live and in my hands ~ or sunning itself on a path that I am using during a hike ~ give me the heebie jeebies. But I have a great picture of a rattler that I took when I visited the Antelope Valley Native Poppy Reserve.
Some people like roller coasters.
The problem that I had with Braveheart had more to do with actually seeing that guys face bust open.
I like Quentin Tarantino films. The humor in them just gets me. See most of it, bury my face in a pillow when it gets yucky. I just deal with it.
Much like I dealt with “the comment.” It is done, I didn’t make a fuss in the office at all, there you go.