There are “witches” in non-Christian cultures, as well. The idea of an evil magic maker is not unique to western culture, nor is it a product of Christianity. Mankind has always been afraid of what they can’t understand; if the cow gets sick and dies for what appears to be no reason? Magic! Witches (or whatever the preferred term is)! I’d bet dollars to donuts that those who once followed the ancient pagan relgions upon which Wicca is based had the exact same thing. The whole medieval concept of “witch” had next to nothing to do with paganism.
I mean, shit, we have the same thing today, almost. If one’s computer screws up and we have no idea what’s wrong, some of us will cry “hacker!” before we even think about it.
I’m not saying your opinion or your offense is wrong; I’m simply asking you NOT to spout a bunch of uncited and unreliable “facts” that I will later have to sigh about and renounce in order to confirm that I’m not a flake.
Usually if my computer screws up I swear at the Dell kid, but hey. Damned stoner kids hocking crappy computers…
Actually, the computer is ok. Maybe I should curse the Server God…
As for uncited and unreliable “facts”, hey you have a point. I dont have cites for my opinion as of yet, but I see that I had better come up with some. Too bad I dont type as fast as i’d like…this might not be a good thing, but I talk alot faster.
Dont feed me coffee, what ever you do.
Work is going…interesting. I love politics. I started a thread last friday due to my company deciding to do lay-offs, and now we are learing exactly how much our jobs will change. Boss lady is trapped in many meetings today, and I don’t envy her. I have some really nice mums in a pot to cheer me as I toil. And only an hour left. That helps too. No mentions of dollies changing places on the ceiling of their own violition. Which is probably what you were asking about, but I ramble.
There were Sooooooo many good answers already, that I have to let my Wicca cool off before I do.
(This, from some someone spending Samhain in Salem!)
My “kneejerk” reaction parallels one I read early on in the thread…“grow a skin”. These are not the “burning times”. Don’t be a fluffybunny. Get past it, the Gods need us.
Agreed. I will be spending Samhain in Salem, but I equate it to spending Mardi Gras in N’awlins.
Is it a Mecca, in the vernacular? Yes.
Am I the victim, here? Hardly.
But I can say…“BT/DT”
For the record…of the thousands of Witches “burned at the stake” in Salem, there were 0. 22 folks died. 21 hanged, 1 pressed. All were Christians, falsely accused, with the possible exception of Tituba. Emphasis on the “possible”.
I have QUITE the collection of “typical” Witches hanging (no pun intended!), about my place. it IS a part of who I am, as well as WHAT I am, and I kinda dig it!
Maybe this is beating a dead horse, but I think it’s about time that Wiccans and Neo-Pagans dropped the phrase “The Burning Times.” It’s a silly and historically inaccurate term, particularly when applied to all of medieval Europe.
This article from The Atlantic Monthly gives a pretty thorough debunking of many of the historical claims regarding both pre-Christian pagan worship and the “Burning Times.”
The term “Burning Times” was invented by Gerald Gardner, whose credentials as a pagan have been seriously questioned, to say the least. Gardner believed that 9,000,000 witches were persecuted and killed during the Middle Ages, a statistic that had been popularized but never substantiated by Matilda Gage in the nineteenth century.
The actual number was probably closer to the 40,000 mark. Furthermore, the witch craze was never a pan-European phenomenon–in fact, it’s more proper to consider it a series of sporadic and fairly localized eruptions. Many countries never witnessed anything remotely similar to a “witch hunt,” and those that did–mainly France, Switzerland, and (what is modern) Germany–were usually undergoing a great deal of social upheaval. The historian Robin Briggs has argued that the majority of the witch trials took place during the Reformation (not the Middle Ages). In other words, there was never a sustained, Church-wide movement against witches throughout Europe.
I know that a lot of Wiccans (including several in this thread) happily accept that many (if not most) of Gerald Gardner’s contributions to Wicca were pure fantasy, and there’s really nothing wrong with adding a little creativity to one’s religious practices (whether it be nudity or chanting or whatever works for you). And it is indeed sad that so many people throughout history have died due to religious fanaticism in whatever form it takes.
But those people who still insist that there was a pagan holocaust during the Middle Ages or a “Burning Times” need to get a clue.
Hmmmm…
Every time I read something from sombody like Papaveraceae it just drives home the reasons why Asatruar like myself tend to distance ourselves from Wiccans. The ignorance, the over sensitivity, the victim mentality, the persecution complex, the ‘broom closet’ paranoia and the whole “us vs. the mundanes” attitude… all of it really. For every serious minded pagan, Asatruar, Celtic Recon, Hellenic Recon, Kemetic… even Traditional Wiccan ect there are dozens of flakes that give all of us a bad name. Heck, I’d rather be despised by a fundy Christian for what I AM than marginalized as a kook by ordinary intelligent people for what I am not.
Just pisses me off, that’s all.
Papaveraceae, I don’t think your sensitivity to violence and suffering is a bad thing, nor a thing to be overcome… However, where you do need to grow a thicker skin is in your willingness to be offended when no offense was probably meant. I don’t know your age, but I assume you are young (younger than me, anyway), so I’m going to give you some good cross-generational advice: you will have a happier life if you strive to assume the best in people. In other words, when someone says something stupid or offensive (unless, of course, it is monumentally and obviously hurtful and offensive), give them the benefit of the doubt. In the example at hand, I’m sure that your supervisor was making a poor joke, based more on mythical witches than anything else. She used “Burn the Witch” in the same way she might recommend staking a vampire or shooting a werewolf with a silver bullet.
You are probably right to think that your religous views have no place at your work. You know the people there better than we do, and are better able to judge whether or not ‘coming out’ as a Wiccan would cause more harm than it’s worth. And, as you say, the discussion of religion is probably not appropriate at most workplaces anyway. The best response to your supervisor’s statement would have been, “Eww! Nobody deserves to be burned at the stake! I can’t joke about that because I always think of all the poor innocent people who actually were burned as witches.” This may have prompted a minor apology from your supervisor (“Oh, I didn’t mean to be offensive! I was just joking.”) that might have short-circuited the upset you felt all day. Or, at least it would have let her know that you dislike violent imagery and prevented her from using such in the future. As for the doll, that’s even easier: if it’s moved back by your door, go to the lady-in-charge-of-decorating and say, “Can we move the witch doll to the lobby? It’s creepy and I’m finding it difficult to work with it ‘looking’ at me!”
You need to learn to stick up for yourself without making everything a huge issue. Most things, especially in the workplace, aren’t big deals unless people want to make them into big deals. And, you’ll be a lot happier and more successful if you don’t become one of those making-mountains-out-of-molehills type people.
How is having a collection of “typical” witches hanging around part of who and what you are? Are you saying that you are a “typical” witch (green skin, riding a broomstick, etc.)? Or are you perpetuating the modern myth that “Wicca” is somehow related to the “typical” depiction of witches?
I can see your point clearly, and I agree with your arguements. I am a bit of a local public figure because of my being a DJ, “out”, and running a couple of open and path specific meetings each month. While those of us who have matured are aware of the invalidity of the “Burning Times” numbers, the phrase is a good way, in discussions, to help the serious along their path and get the “Charmed” fans to move on to the “Buffy” discussion down the street.
I reallly shoulda listened to the dermatologist all those years ago…
No, seriously…
Myths, imagery, and pop-culture throughout history is a part of who we all are. Whether valid or not, the “typical” Witch image is a part of who I am.
Is a Besom (broomstick) a tool of the Craft? Yes, it is. Not as a vehicle of transportation, but one of change. Cleansing is a part of most traditions. Besoms are used to sweep away negativity from within our sacred space.
