I’ve found your posts so far to be pretty well-written and very informative. I do have to ask, though; what is The Craft, really?
It’s not a question that’s meant nearly as antagonistically as it seems. I’m simply wondering what you suggest solitary pagans do in order to learn their path. I know that, personally, when I was starting out (and even to some extent now), I knew no other Wiccans and had to blunder my way through the bookstores, and though I am no fan of Ms. Ravenwolf and her ilk (among which I would not count Scott Cunningham), I did find some mainstream books to be useful.
I suppose I’m asking for some cites, here, and I guess I have got my back up a bit–the phrase “really is” implies that there’s only one way to practice; I’m just hoping for some clarification.
And you seem really cool, btw, so don’t take this as an attack.
Sorry if I mislead that way.
What I was trying to say was, out of all of the paths available, White-light-fluffy-bunny-pink-unicornism certainly smacks more of a fashion statement or teen rebellion than of a true religious journey. Sooner or later, within Neo-Pagandom as well as without, a hollow, totally self-created/self-indulgent spirituality will become the “salt that loses it’s savor”, for the practicant, as well as those around them.
For Wicca?
You can read any and/or all of them. Crowley, Gardner, Sanders, etc.
For Witchcraft?
Start at http://www.whywiccanssuck.com
If I can help anyone else further, please PM me as to keep this thread from being a pain to the others…
Sorry if I mislead that way.
What I was trying to say was, out of all of the paths available, White-light-fluffy-bunny-pink-unicornism certainly smacks more of a fashion statement or teen rebellion than of a true religious journey. Sooner or later, within Neo-Pagandom as well as without, a hollow, totally self-created/self-indulgent spirituality will become the “salt that loses it’s savor”, for the practicant, as well as those around them.
For Wicca?
You can read any and/or all of them. Crowley, Gardner, Sanders, etc.
For Witchcraft?
Start at http://www.whywiccanssuck.com
If I can help anyone else further, please PM me as to keep this thread from being a pain to the others…
Does that mean that I should be pissed off at the way mimes persecute me by making silence the basis of their comedy, in open parody of my belief in nothing?
Scott Cunningham was ok. Ravenwolf made me laugh after the second book came out.
Some of you obviously think that I am a nice little witchy-poo who found wicca, paganism, shamanism, ceremonial magiksim, whatever, after watching some gawd-awful movie like The Craft.
Yikes. And I repeat, Yikes. A little off base, but hey. I dont see that in my momentary snit fit I gave any of you any other choice of character.
I am trying to find a way to say all of this without seeming totally…odd, I guess is a way to put it. Or defensive. That sounds a bit better. Please forgive if I miss that goal, instead of whipping out the flamethrower as some of you are often wont to do.
:shrug: never hurts to ask.
Yes, I have alot to learn about the religion that I was raised in. That I will admit. My parents completely bailed on teaching me around the time that they divorced, which was when I was about 8. Dad split and moved back to Michigan after a few years. My family later started to go to circles with a Dianic group, with a couple of CM’s thrown in for good measure. It was wonderful. One large family. Two of those people are dead now, and I miss them dearly.
But I dont learn completely by osmosis. When I asked for formal teaching I was told I was too young, and that it should come from my mom. I believe I was 18 at the time. Ok, but what do you do when your mom won’t? Read alot and go to open rites, that’s what. Most of the books on the market are pretty much crap, and the So. Cal community is fraught with politics and weirdos. I can deal with the weird. I hate politics. I’ll play on occasion, but I really loathe it. Makes me think and feel much worse of the ones who are hard-core players. And if you wont play, you are generaly ostracized.
What was even funnier was when I did ask questions, and people whom I have known my whole life look at me like I’m crazy and should have just absorbed religion like a little sponge.
And you think that witchy-poos make the religion(s) look bad?
So, several years and a divorce of my very own later, I have a snit fit in a place where I can seemingly do so. Much better than having a hissy in the office when on the rag and under stress.
Wiccan was obviously a very bad term for me to use. Maybe seeker would have been better, but part of my point would not have come across, even as badly as it did.
…I didn’t think you were a witchy-poo. I took issue with your statements about the Burning Times, but I do so with the vast majority of my counterparts in spirituality.
Rest assured, while I might not share your outrage, I do hold you in respect. And I’m really sorry if I gave you any other impression.
I don’t know much about the kind of people other reconstructionist religions attract, I only know my own experiences in Asatru. We do get some folks who come to the faith from Wicca and try to do a synthesis, they’re called ‘wiccatru’. Now, nine times out of ten these guys make a big splash… piss us off, claim that we have no ‘monopoly’ on the Aesir then they either A. Grow up and move a more traditional Asatru practice and we all move on or B. go back to Wicca using Norse/Germanic names and no longer call themselves ‘Asatru’. They are not made welcome as long as they call themselves Asatru and do not practice the faith as it is generally accepted. The difference here is that Asatru is more rigidly defined with a specific background and focus while Wicca almost defies definition, lacks any organization, has little to no really accepted dogma or exclusionary practices. There is a decent article online regarding the differences between Asatru and Wicca called “The Pentagram and the Hammer” that goes into further detail.
Yes. And I still do. My opinion is not based on your “momentary snit fit”, but on your subsequent responses. The way you changed the rational for why you were offended indicates that you don’t really know why you were offended in the first place. And that leads me to believe that you haven’t thought out your worldview - or your religion.
You are a quasi-religous witchy poo because when confronted with facts, you post things like this:
We’re still waiting for you to explain how the classical witch archetype stems from neo-paganism, a religion that developed 500 years after the archetype.
Face it, darling, the kooky side of neo-paganism is trying to steal that archetype. They are trying to steal the witch trials so little witchy poos can feel romantic and special by identifying with brave, persecuted figures who never existed.
The fact that you can’t come up with any cites is further indication that you haven’t looked at this previously. You have never really examined “The Burning Times”, yet you believe in them. That tells me that you most likely have never examined the rest of your beliefs. That you have cobbled this half assed shit from vague childhood memories and sources you don’t even remember. You are the fragile little witchy-poo that “The Burning Times” myth was concocted for.
Tell the truth, you once had a velvet painting of a flying unicorn on your wall, didn’t you?
First off, Dave, those teeth were damn scary and you know it! (I’m going to get you for that!)
Second, I’m with **Witch ** here.
*Originally posted byWitch:
I collect all things witchy. They’re all over my house.
Actually there are some Wiccans who call themselves witches based on the fact that the old women people used to go to for poultices, herbal cures and such were often thought to be witches of sorts. Sort of an hommage to the motherly/healer/in-tune with nature women of our past–like my grandmother.
However, rather than be offended by people using the term “witch”, I embrace it. My boss at work as well as all my employees know that I am Wiccan. I make witch jokes and we have a hideously wrinkled, green-faced, wart-nosed picture of a witch on our window. My employees colored her so she has red hair–just like me.
Now, real religious discrimination pisses me off. Like the man at work who felt I should not have been promoted because I am Wiccan.
Harsh? Yes. Also cruel & mean. However, also true & correct. “Cruel but fair”.
Oh, and Evilbeth? While you were feverishly imagining turning that dude into a toad, your agnostic “sister” was filing an EEO complaint on his ass and walking away with a cool hundred grand. Which works better?
I am a member of the Spanish inquistion (you weren’t expecting that!) and also witchfinder general. I find it very offensive the way that my group has been potrayed largely as result of revisionist liberal commu-nazi historians. The people that were burned WERE witches and they WERE in league with the devil (who they fornicated with), the only way to cleanse their souls was to burn them at the stake, so far from persecuting them they were being done a favour.
I also collect Italian things…Horns, Matabundi, streghe, etc…
I am sure there are African-Americans who collect old “Negro” advertising and such. Does it make them LESS of who/what they are? No, they celebrate these things. (It goes to the thread about the old cartoons.) Except Bill Cosby. He collects them to prevent OTHERS from sharing in the hilarity of ignorance.
When people DO give me a hard time, I tell them to “go read a book” When that doesn’t work, I tell them they’ll look realllllly funny hopping dpwn the road going ribbett…
Hm. This Samhain I think I’ll be focusing on my queer ancestors. This has the advantage of 1) their actually being queer and 2) my actually being queer, as opposed to people who were largely falsely accused of being in a religion that my religion was at best partially based on.
