With Friends like the S. Baptists, Gays Need No Enemies

As someone who grew up a Southern Baptist and is no longer a practicing member, I’d like to share that in my personal experience most Southern Baptists aren’t rabid anti-gay hatemongers. If you ask them about it you can expect them to say that the lifestyle is a sin but you’re just not going to see most of them acting like Fred Phelps.

I attended sermons all my life at two different churches and in that time I can’t remember the subject of homosexuality coming up even once. Maybe it was just the churches I attended, but I certainly don’t remember any real gay bashing going on. There’d be occasional lessons in Sunday School about what it sinful behavior, and homosexuality would be included…but that’s really about it.

By far and away most every thing talked about in the church revolved around accepting Jesus as savior.

Just my own little anecdote.

I’m not trying to slam you guys in any way, Aries and Sauron. But whatever decisions you make, I want you to make them while understanding two things:

  1. This is not your father’s SBC, which was a loose confederation with minimal doctrinal authority. It’s now got the power to decide what individual congregations can and can’t believe if they want to be Southern Baptist, it’s used that power, and it’s going to increasingly insist that the individual congregations toe the party line.

  2. Its stand on gays isn’t at all isolated, but rather part of a complex of stands relating to sexuality, the role of women, and whatnot.

I think you’re doing the right thing in probing to see where your church stands with respect to what the SBC is doing. But whatever you find out, I’m not qualified to make your decisions for you; only you know whether or not you’re called to stay where you are. (I take that word called seriously, fwiw, because God’s plan is far deeper than my modest thoughts: just because I, with my limited sight, can’t see the sense in a particular course of action, doesn’t mean that God doesn’t have far better reasons to call someone to follow that course.) All I can ask is that you not have illusions about where the SBC is and where it’s going.

Ray Walker-it was the same thing when I was in Catholic school-we were never told that homosexuality was sinful-in fact, when we did bring it up-most teachers told us it was none of our business, and that we had dirty minds. (Mostly because we’d read about two guys who were friends and we’d say, "Oh, they’re GAY!!!) You know how kids are.

OK, it’s taken me 2 days to get through this thread. Last night it was 4 pages, today, 7.

The split in the SBC started in the mid 70’s at a SBC meeting in Houston, Texas. A local politician, Judge Paul Presseler, made a speech that was politicizing and divisive, and a good number of the people there left, including a number that were on the podium, including me. My college choir had sung, and I was to sing the solo part on the next choral performance, therefore, I was on the main platform to be near a mic.

When Presseler gave his hateful and nasty position, and stated that he intended to lead the SBC in that direction, he said “If you don’t agree, you should leave right now”. Over half of the people there DID leave, and I was the first one off the podium. (I also muttered JERK at his back as I passed him.) The origin of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship took place in the hallways of that venue, the old Houston Coliseum.

However, the cause of unity was dragged in, the idea that we could work together to keep up the missions work, the good things (disaster response, church building teams headed by retired builders) and the good programs that the SBC had built over the years. (Sunbeams, G.A. and R.A.'s, the camps, the colleges). People were willing to work together for the common good.

Presseler and Paige Patterson (and believe me, the fact that both had the initials PP caused some fairly risque’-for-Baptists comments) continued to politicize the SBC, dragging in every argument possible for THEIR way, their beliefs. Anybody notice that the inerrantist position and the Religious Right/Republican South (especially Texas) all happened in the some time frame? That was no coincidence. It was very carefully planned out ond executed.

I witnessed the first shot. It was ugly, and I said that day that I would never leave my church, it would have to leave me. When i’m here, I attend a multiracial church that is a Texas Baptist Convention member, and a SBC member as well. (The Church Loan program for buildings is a valuable resource for our church, as we’ve become quite poor–yuppie flight to go to church with Tom DeLay out at Williams Trace in Sugar Land–and have had to re-finance the last of the loans on the buildings.) Do I even pretend to believe for one moment that we are going to pay attention to this current campaign? No.

The SBC has a “victim of the year” thing they do to try and evangelize the world. Jews, Mormons, Mexicans, whatever…and everybody gets their little packets and ignores them. In 6 months, they won’t even remember who the target group was this time.

When i’m in Austin, I attend church at a church of “like faith and order”–same tenuous links, mostly tradition and working from within–that has several gay deacons. And ordains women.

The SBC left me, I didn’t leave it. I have stayed the same, the right wing just took over. Don’t like it, won’t support it, working to help pay my church’s loan and get away from their influence as much as possible. But I can’t change it from within if i’m not it there.

I was an elected messenger to SBC meeting twice. And I voted the way my fellow congregants and my conscience said to. And I was strongly castigated by many people. AND I told them that I was not their God, and I was not their conscience, so just back off trying to be mine.

The REAL problem with Baptists is that if you put 10 of them in one room to try and get consensus, you’ll end up with 12 differing opinions on EVERYTHING, and inevitably someone will say “We’ve never done it that way before”. And then it’ll be time to eat.

ALL Baptists DO agre on that. It’s generally time to eat.

I like you now. :smiley:

Honey, I was chairperson of the kitchen committee for 12 years.

Want pot roast and taters and onions for 300?

Breakfast for 125?

Turkey and dressing and all the trimmings for 500?

I’m yer girl.

My themesong…

When the Rolls are Served Up Yonder, I’ll be There

Oh dear, my beverage was almost all over my monitor there! :smiley:

Well, you know why Baptists always have potlucks – they might agree that it’s time to eat, but they can never agree what to eat!

Goes with that great old Gospel favorite:

We Shall Gather by the Liver

Seriously, there’s a big problem present – you may realize that, DD; Sauron and Aries may realize that; those of us who take the time to look into Baptist polity, like myself, may realize that…

But the press treats what comes out of the SBC like it was a pronouncement from the Vatican, or like the Presbyterian General Assembly laying down rules for all its member churches.

And so we have the spectacle that according to the news, 16,500,000 good Christian folks are out to save all the gay people in the world from the scourge of their homosexuality.

I don’t have a solution – other than to change the leadership, which will take time and a groundswell of support that, quite frankly, you don’t have at the moment. Or leaving the churches that you have made your faith-homes in, despite the good they do, over one hot-button issue. And, regardless of what Otto may feel, I’m not expecting you to do that.

Educating the press is a forlorn effort – they find sound-bite stereotyping much easier to get across than the truth.

It would be nice if we all followed the teachings of Jesus – but it doesn’t look likely to happen, in this or any other lifetime.

Do me a favor, and pray for my church, which is going for its own General Convention with a hot-button issue of its own.

May God grant you the patience to listen to the pain of others, the wisdom to discern the right choices for yourself, the courage to stand for what He says is right, and the peace not to be shaken by anyone.

Nah, at my church, once I cooked the first time, they gave up pot luck for “Let Dee Dee Do It”.

They ate what I chose to fix or they did without!

Nobody starved.

Oh, for a little history on the whens and some of the whys of the Southern Baptist split…

http://www.mchorse.com/sbcchronology.htm

I’m not a member of any organized religion…i’m a Baptist.

Oh, gobear,

I’m also a former volunteer with the AIDS Foundation here, and a strong supporter of human rights, whatever the agesexracepersonalpreference of that human may be.

Most of the people I know are the same. We have a church in Houston, (I was a member when I lived in the area) that has had a music minister die of AIDS. That Southern Baptist (dual convention membership with National Baptist) church has living quarters for HIV positive persons on their property. They set up and funded a clinic for PWA, giving the complete running of it to the doctor that had cared for their staff member. Go to this website and click on BCF-Wellness. http://www.brentwoodbaptist.org/

We’re not all like the Official Usurpers of the SBC. There are intrusive rude jerks everywhere. And unfortunately, a WHOLE bunch of them keep on calling out Jesus’ name, and they have no idea of what He would think of their behavior. Hate is not a family value, and not a Christian virtue. They’re just too stupid to realize that what they’re promoting is self-centered egotistic coercion, not genuine love of others.

FWIW, I don’t live in a trailer, and I don’t drink beer, but i’ve worn the odd polyester in the last 50 years (until I could afford better) and I have this step-cousin that kinda interested me for a while…

But Jerry springer is OUT.