You know, it is quite a thing, these people. How dare they claim to be ‘people of god’ when they spew as much vitriol and hatred as they do? Of course, it is likely only to get press for the SBC, which was probably their only goal in the first place.
These people (not all baptists mind you) are no better or different than those who subscribe to the ideas of collossal minds like Matthew Hale and the world church of the creator, or the KKK.
They hate without regard and disguise it as love. They lie without remorse, and choose to discriminate, even though the God they claim to serve, by all accounts, does not.
They are truly human waste, their ideals, a cancer on the face of humanity.
That having been said, I agree with their right to speak, and support them in the freedom of speech, though I utterly detest what they say. I do not, however support the attacking of innocent people while they live their daily lives. I think swift and violent opposition to this kind of thing is not only called for, but necessary.
Indeed, this is religious tyrrany, and needs to be combatted, yet the same opposition i spoke of is possible by merely ignoring the rantings of these hateful zealots, and allowing their numbers to dwindle as their views narrow.
FTR…
FUCK, FUCK, FUCK the Southern Baptist Convention, with a giant corn cob in their worthless asses.
Bumpersticker wisdom “The only problem with baptists, is that they don’t hold them under long enough.”
Thank you for making my point for me. By the way, show me where she attributed them to gobear.
Tell you what – show me where I’ve attacked gobear.
“Far too large and disparate a group”? Self-professed Southern Baptists number around 16.5 million in the U.S. as of 1990. (I’m still looking for more recent figures.) They are the single largest Protestant denomination in the U.S. And yet my comparison is invalid? Right.
I see you now trying to draw a distinction between the SBC and Southern Baptists as a whole, but you haven’t done that consistently in this thread. You’ve said things like “Southern Baptists are fundamentalists” and “I’m not addressing Baptists who live in the South, but Southern Baptists” when it’s patently obvious that some Southern Baptists (such as myself) are not fundamentalists, and are actually on his side. I have spent the vast majority of my time on this board trying to fight stereotypes of any sort, and I hope I’ve been consistent. If I have not, Polycarp, I will cheerfully apologize for any stereotypes I’ve fostered.
I have made it plain I do not agree with the SBC on this issue. In response, macabresoul (for example) has called me and others like me “ignorant fuckwads.” He seems unable to understand that he is acting exactly as the SBC is in this instance – lumping a disparate group of people into one homogenous mass.
Poly, I know you’re not-I have some serious beefs with the Vatican myself, which is why I’m no longer practicing.
gobear, I appologize if I misunderstood. If you’re condeming the SBC and the people in charge, yes, you’re absolutely right. If you’re talking about ALL SBs, then you’re wrong.
However, I still think acting like they do defeats the purpose.
Y’all know the SBC has an annual meeting in Dallas, right?
Nice lesbian I know was dating a stripper. The stripper mentioned that whenever the SBC is in town, the strip clubs are filled to capacity and more – double their usual clientele, in some places – and the men tip so well…
And I’m not even going to get in to the Vatican. I’m still sick about that Phoenix bishop. Really, really, physically ill.
I wish I had an answer for this, too…problem is, love won’t fix it, and anger won’t fix it, and reason won’t fix it, and playing by their rules sure as hell won’t fix it…
Southern Baptists has been used interchangeably with the SBC, as I have already explained. sorry, but it takes too much time to write "the Southern Baptist Convention[sup][/sup]"
[sup][/sup] Excluding Sauron and any other individual Southern Baptists who do not wish to be associated with the anti-gay views.
Ditto for fundamentalism. You, personally, may not be a fundamentalist, but your denomination’s governing body
has adopted the Five Fundamentals as official doctrine, including Biblical inerrancy, so don’t say the SBC is not fundamentalist becauser their own Faith and Message statement says they are.
Hi…this is Aries…not Sauron. For the life of me I can’t figure out on our home computer how to change this to my user name…
Few things…
For macabresoul…I never attributed those things being said by gobear. If it came across that way then I do apologize.
I will agree that the usage of the terms Southern Baptist and Southern Baptist Convention were the root of all the controversy. I got the mistaken opinion that everybody was being lumped in together. I don’t agree with the majority of the SBC FTR. I am not quite intelligent enough to debate their doctrine like some of you guys but basically, anytime they treat people poorly because of their sex, race, sexual orientation, etc. I take offense and I DO try to do things to change it!
gobear…I really do agree with you on this. I think it is a terrible thing. I am sorry you have junk going on right now and I honestly do hope it gets better. Don’t be sad! ::
If you are ever in Alabama then let us know and Sauron and I will personally show you that we aren’t all ignorant, backwoods, trailer trash, gay bashing fuckwads. Deal?
Minor board-use hijack: Aries, the Skulldigger and I have the same problem, though she almost never posts. Here’s the way to handle it:
[ul][li]Go to the main message board menu (click on the underscored Straight Dope Message Board at the top of every forum and thread.[/li][li]At the bottom right of the page will be three underscored things, the first reading Log out. Click on that.[/li][li]You’ll get a forums menu back, probably with forums shown as locked. Look down in the lower right again.[/li][li]There will be two boxes there saying something like User name [] Password []. Type in Aries and whatever your password is.[/li]After this cycles, you’ll be logged on under your own name.[/ul]
Thank you for your kind words, Aries, I’m sorry I was so intemperate, and I apologize for the lack of clarity that caused the confusion.
Today, I was teary when my partner got home from work. He knew I was upset so he ordered Chinese food so I wouldn’t have to cook, then he put his arms around me and held me while I cried. He’s loving and supportive, and he’s always there when I need him. He even went with me to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC for 3 hours (he hates museums). That’s love.
If the SBC could see how we live, maybe they would reconsider their attitudes.
Okay, mods…I promise this is the last time I will post under Sauron to avoid confusion…
Gobear Isn’t it great when they cook for you or handle ordering dinnerwhen you have had a bad day or are sad or things are too hectic? That is the best…when I walk in from work or a crappy day and Sauron has dinner started (even if it’s something yucky)
I’m glad I logged on tonight and that you responded. I would hate to think that this posting made you feel so sad and upset.
Have a good rest of the evening…both little Saurons are FINALLY asleep so we are turning in.
Allow me to butt into this thread. You see, I really don’t have a dog in this fight. I’m a straight male, with no gay friends (that I know of) and I am not a Christian. The only reason I pay attention to this topic is that I live in a deep section of the Bible belt (albeit, in an island city that looks somewhat progressive). Like it or not, I get more than a fair share of exposure to Christian bigotry.
A year or so ago, our Alabama Supreme court chief justice was making rulings that justified stripping away parental rights on the basis of homosexuality, and wrote a draconian opinion. Coincidentally, I received a “junk mail” invitation to join PFLAG . I almost thought it was a joke - I mean, friends of gays in Alabama? That’s gotta be a small club. But, in the spirit of the joke, I went ahead and sent in a donation. After my year’s “membership” ran out, I began discarding their requests for renewal.
Now, this story comes out. Today I got another PFLAG renewal notice. I’m gonna have to renew now.
I have to say, I agree with gobear and others who have agreed with him. To my way of thinking, we are human and we do tend to make assumptions about people based on our sensory input. For instance, a lot of people think of lawyers as being snake-like and few people would think to correct them on their stereotype. These are both examples of behavior-based stereotyping, which is often acceptable. Granted, not always, but generally more so than say gender or race stereotyping.
That said, I think that people who have a problem with what he says because they are SB (and don’t want to be thought of that way) should address their Convention before addressing gobear. If what he’s saying is wrong, what they are saying is infinitely more wrong, so why do so many SB remain silent with them? And dissing them here doesn’t count—you have to tell them to their face. Everyone should. I do, anytime a fundie spews such nonsense. You have to tell them when they’re talking that smack at work, or anywhere else you happen to hear it. Go to your church and stand up and say *I will not support this—this is WRONG. * Take back your church, take back your faith for cryin’ out loud. Isn’t it worth standing up for?
I was raised Southern Baptist and have lived in the South all my life. I’m a straight female atheist with an extreme loathing of the culture of religiosity in this country these days. I don’t personally care what anyone believes just as long as they stay on their side of the legal line—they will not take my rights, nor anyone else’s. Anecdotally speaking, I see a kernel of truth in gobears stereotype. I think as an FOB (Friend of Bubba) I can say that.
Umm, wouldn’t it be a lot faster and easier to type SBC than Southern Baptists? You’d save time and energy and save yourself from looking like an ignorant, knee-jerking jackass, not to mention not getting overone all het up over the misunderstanding. Plus you’d save yourself having to apologize.
FTR, I’m not Baptist, but sizable portions of my and Dr.J’s families are. I’m not sure if their individual churches are part of the SBC or not. What I am sure of is this: the Southern Baptists I have known throughout my life are NOT actuated by hate, nor do they spew vitriol against gays or other people whose lives they consider to be immoral. They disagree with homosexuality, to be sure, and many of them disagree with things that are a pretty fundamental core of my being.
Some of my Baptist acquaintances have tried to convert me, trying to get me to come to church with them and share the love they genuinely believe God has for each and every soul in creation. They’re genuinely distressed that I will die “unsaved” because they truly love their neighbors as their brothers. They’re not acting out of condemnation, but love and compassion and generosity.
If that makes them evil, I wish the world was a more evil place.
I’m glad I logged on tonight and that you responded. I would hate to think that this posting made you feel so sad and upset.
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No, it wan’t the thread that was upsetting ( or not as much), but my sister’s situation. My mom called last night and told me she was diagnosed with a brain tumor.
Did you read the OP? The SBC called gay people “sinful and destructive” and I resent that. It is NOT love, but the desire to impose their brand of thinking on my life and I will not tolerate that for one damn second.
Heaven forfend that you support the cause because it’s the right thing to do, regardless of how a few people on an internet message board vent their anger at the bigotry they endure.
It’s a small tumor in the space betwen the hemispheres of the brain. Right now, the doctors have said they are going to watch it to see if it grows or if it is just a benign body. She told me she’s going to get a second opinion from another neurologist. I’m glad because I don’t like the idea of “wait and see” when it comes to this crap.
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