We all know Trumpers and it’s tempting to tell them “I told you so.” Deutsche Bank, the PGA, other Republicans turning on him, corporations shutting down donations, Pompeo dissed by Luxembourg, fill in your own blank. This is really turning into such a series of teachable moments about why other presidents don’t go there, after all.
But it’s already been so divisive and we have to come together as a country. Someone has to take the high road, be the adults. IMO we don’t dare gloss this over—but we can go overboard and that will make reconciliation with our fellow Americans even harder.
Mrs. L and I know some church folks who are Trumpers and one of these days one of them is going to say something good about him. I’ll tempted to say, “Well, look, dinner’s ready. Grab your wife by the pussy and join us!” Some of them are in their 70s and 80s so I don’t know…better have a defibrillator handy?
What are your thoughts? What will you say and to whom? I asked my bro and he said he just gives people a look and they know him well enough that they don’t even go there…
I think it’s kind of lame that people on this board compare this to reconstruction or something after the civil war, paraphrasing “we didn’t break them back then and this is the reason we are paying the price now, we must completely crush them into dust now for 100 generations so they learn” uhmm completely different time periods and racism isn’t the the end all be all of every event in the United States.
Just a weird thought process in my opinion, not sure if this is only tangential to what you’re talking about but I’ve definitely seen similar sentiments here lately.
The problem for anybody who has been supporting Trump for the last four years is that if they denounce Trump now they’re admitting they’ve been wrong for the last four years; that they fucked up once again. And that all of the people who told them they were wrong for those four years were right.
It’s not about defending Trump. They’re defending themselves.
I can’t speak for others, but I chose the title partly because we’re so far apart from Trumpers (completely estranged, in some cases) from our “enemies” that it reminded me of brother versus brother, the Civil War. But you’re right, I also chose it a little bit because of the race thing. I say a little bit because there are just so many things about Trump—misogyny, nationalism, his demands of loyalty, generally being a prick, a coup attempt—that race is only a part of the Venn diagram.
I don’t advocate crushing people and I don’t think that would make them learn. Our loved ones love us as well…that should help us reach them and yet it hasn’t. Moving forward with them, how do we stand firm that “Nope, what he did was dangerous to our democracy” while not kicking our loved ones when they’re down (so to speak)?
It could be like that expression that the victors write the history books—the winners get to crow and brag and all that. But I think that can come with a price…forcing it down their throats isn’t going to be durable. And if you act all superior, well, even if you might be right it would backfire.
In the background ], I’m thinking of something I heard a long time ago: an organization takes on the characteristics of its leader. So if you get a leader who is a bully, the rank and file will start turning into bullies as well. That’s the example set for them. So when I think about talking to my sister, it’s almost like figuring out how to talk to Trump himself because she has internalized a lot of what he says.
Personal relationships aside, this has changed the world’s view of our country. If they go their way, maybe we’re ripe for another autocrat. Reunited with the deprogrammed Trumpers, we might get back to our former selves.
If it had been successful, let’s say in the ugliest of ways, and Congress had been allowed to usurp the election how would the ‘Trumpers’ be treating everyone else?
The Trump movement owes a lot to Populism. Like Huey Long before him. It’s not so much the racism or defensible bigotry per se it’s the fact that the United States has left its own countrymen behind to falter and to sink into nothing.
Politicians are not elected to office to right the wrongs of bigotry or to pay for grievances past but to raise up and lift their fellow countrymen up so they have a chance at happiness.
If it vote for you it’s not because I want you to save the world, the world can wait, I want to you to save me and my fellow countrymen.
You were elected to save the good ol USA and not the world. Otherwise what is the point. I know people are starving in Ethiopia, I’m not asking you to save the world, I’m asking you to save me and my family and my fellow Americans, nothing else even enters into it.
You have to save yourself first, put the oxygen mask on yourself before your children. That’s what Trump tapped into and that’s why he won in the first place.
Ever look at the names of the minor players in Watergate and Iran-Contra? Everyone should.
If the Dems coming into power stuck it to the Republicans then we might not have had every case of Republican corruption and mal governance since.
But hey, why bother learning from history when we can simply relive it and have even better seats.
Nice post, thanks. I always wonder how (back in the day) people decided Hitler wasn’t ok. IIRC for example, Lindbergh thought Nazis were ok. In the moment, how do we separate the good guys from the bad guys? I think we need to figure out how Trump got where he did rather than shrug it off and think it’s a mystery for the ages.
I know some very intelligent people who are Trumpers. One, for instance, is well to do and I can guess he follows Trump for tax benefits. Another is not at all well to do but he’s ex-military.
Do you have a list or cite? My assumption is that for the most part, DC is a group of scumbags that take turns, rotate duties, etc.
But doesn’t absolute power corrupt absolutely? If your power is unchecked…
I like the sentiment but ISTM that we have to know which history to pay attention to. My older brother one advised me to keep two things in mind: 1) He who hesitates is lost, and 2) Look before you leap. I mean, these insurrectionists think they’re patriots, founding fathers, whatever…
There is no room left for “coming together” and letting bygones be bygones.
We’ve been there. We’ve done that. And the result was people described in the OP running pell-mell further to the right. They did this in despite and/or in the face of the ideals they proclaim (being church goers in the OP). They did this despite and/or in the face of ALL evidence that they were being lied to.
Such actions are willful.
If they want to repent great…they need to do more than say the words. In good Catholic fashion (even if they are not Catholic) they need to do penance. That need not be punishment but they need to work to rectify the evil they helped perpetrate on the land. It takes a lot more than lip-service to do that.
If all they have is lip-service then to hell with them.
The last four years have sailed us well past the Obama admin of piously trying to reach across the aisle only to be rejected so thoroughly and consistently as to make a mockery of good governance. For supporters of Trump and his lackeys willing to toss any and all norms of governance and good will out the window the instant it became inconvenient.
This is the bed they made. They have to sleep in it.
I get the us and them thing, which sometimes applies. It’s easier if you don’t have a loved one on the other side of the fence. But my Trumper sister is still my sister.
I don’t mean to wave the problems away. I don’t want her to remain under their spell, either. I think that’s the problem. How do you talk about what just happened and get on the same page, respectfully?
Hillary described the basket of deplorables…and the video I linked brought them up again, saying that no, not all Repubs are like that but—here are some. And that seems key to me. I don’t think my sister would have joined them when they overran the Capitol. But I can’t guarantee it.
Honestly, I mostly got serious about politics to go out and vote for Hillary because I couldn’t imagine having Trump for POTUS. I won’t claim that my imagination was good enough to predict the current situation. Not by a long shot. But I knew I really really didn’t like DJT. He was likely to carry my state but…
Maybe because of my sister I kind of look at all this like divorce or disowning people. If you say that we can never reconcile with these people…what’s left? I totally get giving up on those people in life with whom we can’t get along, but this is nigh on 50% of the population. That has to wreak havoc.
I’m saying that if one party always has power, it’s easy to abuse.
Surprised. And not surprised. These folks circulate out there all the time, right? Weasels for rent? But that’s typical.
I would love it if reconciliation were possible, but I genuinely don’t see it without there being some sort of awakening from their side. I do not see how I could trust someone who was deceived by Trump, and I definitely can’t support those who willingly went along with him.
I have been and even am in the same financial situation these people are in. I was “left behind.” My dad is a white blue collar worker. Yet I wasn’t so selfish, so willing to ignore my own morals, so angry about people caring about non-white people that I would support a man who didn’t even try to hide that he was evil. I believe in the concept of democracy and not authoritarianism. Or, as my Christian friends put it, I put my faith in God, not man.
So I find it difficult to find an excuse. At most I can excuse trying not paying attention and voting R in 2016, not realizing that he could be so bad. But not continued support.
I just can’t trust anyone who doesn’t show proof they’ve changed to not betray us all again. It’s like how you don’t trust a drug addict after they swindle you.
I wish it weren’t so. I wish I could trust them. But they so thoroughly betrayed that trust that I can’t see how. My best hope right now is that Trump will be taken down and/or die and he’ll lose the spell over people, but even then there’s so much damage, and so many bridges burnt.
Even if they say and do the right things, their betrayal to us all will be in the back of my mind, as I don’t k ow how to be sure they won’t do it again.
Ya know, if their side was actually interested in ‘getting along’ they’d stop their ‘side’ from announcing that they’re going start impeachment proceedings against Biden before he’s even sworn in.