With the Triple Crown try coming up - Ask the Horse Racing Fan

The Belmont Stakes offered $1.5 million to the winner. If you believe you have a 3 yr old horse that can win, put up your $6000 entry fee and give it a go.

The same horses have the option of running in any, or all, of the three races that comprise the Triple Crown but the racetracks are entirely separate entities.

There are other qualifications, of course, but all 3 races are open to 3 yr olds and all horses will carry 126 lbs (jockey, silks, saddle, and tack).

ESPN just tweeted that Secretariat would have beaten Tonalist by 22 lengths.

All things being equal.

Watch the clip. Secretariat would’ve beaten the Starship Enterprise.

I know, it was the first horse race I ever saw. It just incredible that 40+ years later, with what has to be better nutrition and training etc, that Secretariat is still that much better than the modern horse.

I think it’s because whoever built the track wanted it to be the largest in North America, which is why it’s 1 1/2 miles around.

There’s a limit of 20 horses that can enter the Derby; if more than that enter, I think it’s based on how much money the horse has earned up to that point. (Originally, there was no limit, until there was something like 22 horses in a race in the mid-1970s, after which they imposed the 20-horse limit.)

California Chrome’s co-owner Steve Coburn is, understandably, not a happy man.

Whoever said life was fair. Still, sour grapes, or does he have a point? Should there be some sort of rule change for the races concerned?

Aldiboronti: IMO, no.

I read the owner’s rant and I think it’s just sour grapes for these reasons:
Let’s say I’m the owner of a racehorse Coyote’s Folly. I race her in the Derby and she places in the third to sixth place range. Let’s say I’m not really rich, well off, but not a Saudi billionaire or a Koch brother. I decide that with a few more weeks training and rest, she can win the Belmont and if the Derby winner takes the Preakness, there’ll be more interest in the Belmont, hence more betting, hence I can make a lot of money. That’s a perfectly legitimate decision, I think.

Also, there have been horses that have competed against fresh horses and still won the Triple Crown. It can be done. I don’t see why more owners and trainers aren’t asking themselves why Secretariat still holds all those records, including that incredible Belmont victory, 36 years later. You would think animal husbandry has advanced like other sciences and skills, and we could breed a few more horses like Affirmed and Ruby Ridge, if not Secretariat.

Despite my disappointment that California Chrome didn’t win today, I think winning the Triple Crown is the greatest feat in professional sports. A horse has to have blazing speed to take the Preakness and endurance to take the Belmont.

I like things just the way they are.

Good questions, ones I don’t know the answers to.

The history of silks that I found doesn’t mention why they used silk (maybe because it really was the Sport of Kings then?) but now they use nylon or lycra.

http://www.somersetracing.com/content/racing-silks-history-and-design

Owners can pick their colors and designs; certainly a lot use colors that are easy to pick out at a distance.

Why? I fully admit to not following horse racing all that much, but is it any different now than it has been in the past?

The owners of California Chrome remind me of the kind of people who win the lottery and then bitch about how hard life is when they blow through their winnings in a couple years.

It’s tough to say who may have been the greatest. We don’t have video of the real old-timers like Man O’War, so who knows how he compares to Secretariat?

Secretariat was JUST before my time. I do remember the Ruffian - Foolish Pleasure match race, which I think she would have won. I was 9 at the time; thankfully I wasn’t there. (I was there for the similarly awful Go For Wand breakdown in 1990. ) :frowning:

There are several other horses who may have been the all-time greatest - Kelso (won Horse of the Year 5 straight times in the early 1960s); Ruffian; Zenyatta (a desperate nose away from a perfect 20 for 20); maybe even Frankel for the European fans.

And I’d say “who”.

The breeding season is timed so foals arrive starting in early February through mid-May. The busiest sires are bred over 100 times/year, so they can’t cover all the mares in that short a period of time.

If a foal was dropped on New Year’s Eve, I have a feeling the reporting of it might just be delayed a day. But I don’t really know.

It’s pretty different from my strategy,. which is largely to bet doubles, exactas and pick-3’s with occasional win bets on horses who have odds much better than my assessment of their chances to win. But if yours works for you, keep it up!

Riva Ridge.
Coburn’s rant was crap, and undid almost all of the goodwill he and DAP had garnered over the last two weeks. If he thought it was THAT unfair, why didn’t we hear a peep about this over the three weeks between the Preakness and Belmont?

I’d be fine with expanding the time between the Triple Crown races, which, contrary to popular belief, would NOT necessarily make it easier for a horse to win all three - it would mean more horses would run in 2 or 3 legs, as they would not be disturbing their routines by coming back two weeks later for the Preakness / 3 weeks later in the Belmont. It would make repeating in the Preakness much tougher - more competition, plus now horses seem to hold their form for the two weeks; would they still hold their form if they waited 3 or 4 weeks to race in the Preakness?

Coburn had been saying this before the Belmont, although I never heard or read him use the word coward before today. But he did.

I thought the rant was kind of fun. His lack of polish was kind of refreshing, a bit like an actor who doesn’t even bother pretending to be happy to lose the Oscar.

Because I’m only a casual fan of the Triple Crown I compiled these summary notes and pasted them below. I use these to remind myself every May. For other casual fans hopefully these are helpful.

The Triple Crown (last winner, Affirmed, 1978)

  1. Kentucky Derby, 1¼mi / 10 furlongs: 1st Sat / May
  2. Preakness Stakes, 1-3/16mi / 9½ furlongs: 3d Sat / May
  3. Belmont Stakes, 1½mi / 12 furlongs: 3 Saturdays after the Preakness
    (furlong = 1/8mi = 220yds; furlong² = 10 acres)
    11 Triple Crown Winners of All Time
    (Triple Crown of Thoroughbred Racing (United States) - Wikipedia; Wikipedia, table - Winners of the Triple Crown)
    • Winner’s Trophy: The Triple Crown Trophy

1978: Affirmed (Steve Cauthen, jockey)
1977: Seattle Slew (Jean Cruget)
1973: Secretariat (Ron Turcotte)
1948: Citation (Eddie Arcaro)
1946: Assault (Warren Mehrtens)
1943: Count Fleet (Johnny Longden)
1941: Whirlaway (Eddie Arcaro)
1937: War Admiral (Charlie Kurtsinger)
1935: Omaha (Willy Saunders)
1930: Gallant Fox (Earl Sande)
1919: Sir Barton (Johnny Loftus)
13 Triple Crown Near-Misses Since 1979
(Triple Crown of Thoroughbred Racing (United States) - Wikipedia; Wikipedia, table - Individual race winners)
(Triple Crown of Thoroughbred Racing (United States) - Wikipedia; Wikipedia, Belmont outcomes for potential Triple Crown Winners Since 1979)

2014: CALIFORNIA CHROME (4th; Tonalist. Same post #s as 1973 Secretariat, 5, 3, 2)
2012: I’LL HAVE ANOTHER (scratched; Union Rags)
2008: BIG BROWN (last, 9th; Da’Tara. Was eased, officially a DNF; Big Brown the first-ever eased Triple Crown Near Miss)
2004: SMARTY JONES (2nd; Birdstone)
2003: FUNNY CIDE (3rd; Empire Maker)
2002: WAR EMBLEM (7th; Sarava)
1999: CHARISMATIC (3rd; Lemon Drop Kid)
1998: REAL QUIET (2nd; Victory Gallop)
1997: SILVER CHARM (2nd; Touch Gold)
1989: SUNDAY SILENCE (2nd; Easy Goer)
1987: ALYSHEBA (4th; Bet Twice)
1981: PLEASANT COLONY (3rd; Summing)
1979: SPECTACULAR BID (3rd; Coastal)

Kentucky Derby: 1st Sat/May
1¼mi / 10 furlongs @Churchill Downs, Louisville KY

• Record: 1:59.40, Secretariat (1973)
• Inaugural Race: 1875
• Run annually since: 1875
• Winner’s Trophy: Kentucky Derby Trophy
• Race Nickname: The Run for the Roses (red roses); The Greatest Two Minutes in Sports
• Official Drink: Mint Julep (“The Early Times Mint Julep”)
• Post Parade Song: My Old Kentucky Home
• Distance: 1¼mi / 10 furlongs since 1896 (was 1½mi in 1875-1895)
• Location: since 1875 @Churchill Downs, Louisville, KY; 502-636-4400
“The Twin Spires”
Churchill Downs named for John and Henry Churchill, who leased the land to their nephew, Colonel Meriwether Lewis Clark Jr. (grandson of explorer William Clark). Clark was president of the Louisville Jockey Club and Driving Park Association.

Preakness Stakes: 3rd Sat/May
1-3/16mi / 9½ furlongs @Pimlico Race Course, Baltimore MD

• Record: 1:53, Secretariat (1973)
• Inaugural Race: 1873
• Run annually since: 1894
• Winner’s Trophy: Woodlawn Vase
• Race Nickname: The Run for the Black-Eyed Susans (MD state flower); Pimlico is “Old Hilltop”; the race is named after a colt named Preakness, from Milton Holbrook Sanford’s Preakness Stables in Preakness, Wayne Township, NJ
• Official Drink: The Black-Eyed Susan
• Post Parade Song: Maryland, My Maryland
• Distance: 1-3/16mi / 9½ furlongs (since 1925; was 1-1/8mi in 1911-1924; was 1mi in 1909-1910; was 1mi 70yds in 1901-1907; was 1-1/16mi in 1894-1900, 1908; was 1½mi in 1873-1888, 1890).
• Location: since 1909 @Pimlico Race Course, Baltimore MD; 410-542-9400
“Old Hilltop”
In 1873-1889 @Pimlico; in 1890 @Morris Park Racecourse, Bronx NY; in 1891-1893, not run; in 1894-1908 @Gravesend Race Track, Coney Island NY.
The name Pimlico is derived from the 1660s when English settlers named the area where the facility currently stands in honor of Olde Ben Pimlico’s Tavern in London.

Belmont Stakes: 3 Sats after Preakness Stakes
1½mi / 12 furlongs @Belmont Park, Elmont NY

• Record: 2:24, Secretariat, 1973 (by 31 lengths!)
• Inaugural Race: 1867
• Run annually since: 1913 (NY anti-betting laws in 1911, 1912)
• Winner’s Trophy: August Belmont Trophy
• Race Nickname: The Test of the Champion, Run for the Carnations (white carnations)
• Official Drink: Belmont Breeze (since 1997; formerly, White Carnation)
• Post Parade Song: Theme from New York, New York (since 1997; formerly, was The Sidewalks of New York; in 2010 was Jay-Z’s Empire State of Mind)
• Distance: 1½mi / 12 furlongs [since 1926; was 1-5/8mi in 1867-1873; was 1¼mi in 1890-1895 (except was 1-1/8mi in 1893, 1894) and in 1904, 1905; was 1-3/8mi in 1896-1903 and 1906-1925]
• Location: since 1905 @Belmont Park, Elmont NY; 718-641-4700
“The Championship Track”, “Big Sandy”
In 1867-1889 @Jerome Park Racetrack, Bronx NY; in 1890-1904 @Morris Park Racecourse, Bronx NY.
Belmont Park named for August Belmont, Sr. (1816–1890).

Because I’m only a casual fan of the Triple Crown I compiled these summary notes and pasted them below. I use these to remind myself every May. For other casual fans hopefully these are helpful.

The Triple Crown (last winner, Affirmed, 1978)

  1. Kentucky Derby, 1¼mi / 10 furlongs: 1st Sat / May
  2. Preakness Stakes, 1-3/16mi / 9½ furlongs: 3d Sat / May
  3. Belmont Stakes, 1½mi / 12 furlongs: 3 Saturdays after the Preakness
    (furlong = 1/8mi = 220yds; furlong² = 10 acres)
    11 Triple Crown Winners of All Time
    (Triple Crown of Thoroughbred Racing (United States) - Wikipedia; Wikipedia, table - Winners of the Triple Crown)
    • Winner’s Trophy: The Triple Crown Trophy

1978: Affirmed (Steve Cauthen, jockey)
1977: Seattle Slew (Jean Cruget)
1973: Secretariat (Ron Turcotte)
1948: Citation (Eddie Arcaro)
1946: Assault (Warren Mehrtens)
1943: Count Fleet (Johnny Longden)
1941: Whirlaway (Eddie Arcaro)
1937: War Admiral (Charlie Kurtsinger)
1935: Omaha (Willy Saunders)
1930: Gallant Fox (Earl Sande)
1919: Sir Barton (Johnny Loftus)
13 Triple Crown Near-Misses Since 1979
(Triple Crown of Thoroughbred Racing (United States) - Wikipedia; Wikipedia, table - Individual race winners)
(Triple Crown of Thoroughbred Racing (United States) - Wikipedia; Wikipedia, Belmont outcomes for potential Triple Crown Winners Since 1979)

2014: CALIFORNIA CHROME (4th; Tonalist. Same post #s as 1973 Secretariat, 5, 3, 2)
2012: I’LL HAVE ANOTHER (scratched; Union Rags)
2008: BIG BROWN (last, 9th; Da’Tara. Was eased, officially a DNF; Big Brown the first-ever eased Triple Crown Near Miss)
2004: SMARTY JONES (2nd; Birdstone)
2003: FUNNY CIDE (3rd; Empire Maker)
2002: WAR EMBLEM (7th; Sarava)
1999: CHARISMATIC (3rd; Lemon Drop Kid)
1998: REAL QUIET (2nd; Victory Gallop)
1997: SILVER CHARM (2nd; Touch Gold)
1989: SUNDAY SILENCE (2nd; Easy Goer)
1987: ALYSHEBA (4th; Bet Twice)
1981: PLEASANT COLONY (3rd; Summing)
1979: SPECTACULAR BID (3rd; Coastal)

Kentucky Derby: 1st Sat/May
1¼mi / 10 furlongs @Churchill Downs, Louisville KY

• Record: 1:59.40, Secretariat (1973)
• Inaugural Race: 1875
• Run annually since: 1875
• Winner’s Trophy: Kentucky Derby Trophy
• Race Nickname: The Run for the Roses (red roses); The Greatest Two Minutes in Sports
• Official Drink: Mint Julep (“The Early Times Mint Julep”)
• Post Parade Song: My Old Kentucky Home
• Distance: 1¼mi / 10 furlongs since 1896 (was 1½mi in 1875-1895)
• Location: since 1875 @Churchill Downs, Louisville, KY; 502-636-4400
“The Twin Spires”
Churchill Downs named for John and Henry Churchill, who leased the land to their nephew, Colonel Meriwether Lewis Clark Jr. (grandson of explorer William Clark). Clark was president of the Louisville Jockey Club and Driving Park Association.

Preakness Stakes: 3rd Sat/May
1-3/16mi / 9½ furlongs @Pimlico Race Course, Baltimore MD

• Record: 1:53, Secretariat (1973)
• Inaugural Race: 1873
• Run annually since: 1894
• Winner’s Trophy: Woodlawn Vase
• Race Nickname: The Run for the Black-Eyed Susans (MD state flower); Pimlico is “Old Hilltop”; the race is named after a colt named Preakness, from Milton Holbrook Sanford’s Preakness Stables in Preakness, Wayne Township, NJ
• Official Drink: The Black-Eyed Susan
• Post Parade Song: Maryland, My Maryland
• Distance: 1-3/16mi / 9½ furlongs (since 1925; was 1-1/8mi in 1911-1924; was 1mi in 1909-1910; was 1mi 70yds in 1901-1907; was 1-1/16mi in 1894-1900, 1908; was 1½mi in 1873-1888, 1890).
• Location: since 1909 @Pimlico Race Course, Baltimore MD; 410-542-9400
“Old Hilltop”
In 1873-1889 @Pimlico; in 1890 @Morris Park Racecourse, Bronx NY; in 1891-1893, not run; in 1894-1908 @Gravesend Race Track, Coney Island NY.
The name Pimlico is derived from the 1660s when English settlers named the area where the facility currently stands in honor of Olde Ben Pimlico’s Tavern in London.

Belmont Stakes: 3 Sats after Preakness Stakes
1½mi / 12 furlongs @Belmont Park, Elmont NY

• Record: 2:24, Secretariat, 1973 (by 31 lengths!)
• Inaugural Race: 1867
• Run annually since: 1913 (NY anti-betting laws in 1911, 1912)
• Winner’s Trophy: August Belmont Trophy
• Race Nickname: The Test of the Champion, Run for the Carnations (white carnations)
• Official Drink: Belmont Breeze (since 1997; formerly, White Carnation)
• Post Parade Song: Theme from New York, New York (since 1997; formerly, was The Sidewalks of New York; in 2010 was Jay-Z’s Empire State of Mind)
• Distance: 1½mi / 12 furlongs [since 1926; was 1-5/8mi in 1867-1873; was 1¼mi in 1890-1895 (except was 1-1/8mi in 1893, 1894) and in 1904, 1905; was 1-3/8mi in 1896-1903 and 1906-1925]
• Location: since 1905 @Belmont Park, Elmont NY; 718-641-4700
“The Championship Track”, “Big Sandy”
In 1867-1889 @Jerome Park Racetrack, Bronx NY; in 1890-1904 @Morris Park Racecourse, Bronx NY.
Belmont Park named for August Belmont, Sr. (1816–1890).

I have a program from the 1973 Kentucky Derby; and interestingly, there were only 13 horses entered. There were two mutuel entries, which meant 11 betting interests. (Secretariat, as number 1A, won.)

I agree, though, that a few years after that, things started getting crowded. I was glad to see the 20-horse-limit imposed.

Thanks a lot, INRS. Blow-by-blow analyses like these are one of my favorite things to read on this board (cf. this).

Honestly, the best thing about there being another Triple Crown winner is that we won’t have to hear about it anymore. Remember when Susan Lucci won that elusive Emmy, Chinese Democracy was released, or Duke Nukem Forever was completed, and the overwhelming sentiment was “Finally, IT’S OVER! We never have to talk about this again!” That’s kinda how I feel about this. Well, not even that much; I mean, it’s just horse racing, after all.

I guess that much like a no-hitter in baseball, the reason the Triple Crown is so rare is that there are a thousand things that can keep it from happening, and a lot of them are crazy random flukes that are impossible to prepare for. These are animals. You can never be 100% sure about anything with them. Heck, it’s just as likely that a strong favorite who should have won the Preakness instead of Funny Cide or War Emblem had an inopportune senior moment or got spooked by a mouse in the shed.

As for Coburn’s tirade…I dunno. It’s like a football coach grumbling about losing a game on a fake field goal. Um, yeah, owners can enter their horses in whatever races they want. The system’s always been like that. Why are you bringing this up now?

Aside: Given that this sport is so heavily about betting (pretty much the only reason it still exists), I’m surprised that there aren’t lots of exotic bets and props like in the Super Bowl. The only bet I know of that takes the 4th place finisher into account is the superfecta, and from what I’ve heard that one’s very rare. How is it that horse racing got so entrenched into “win”, “place”, “show”, and “all those irrelevant losers”?