I am looking at the Tube in complete Awe. I am seeing Die hard Democrates- with normally polar opposite views to that of the president-completely in agreement with his decisions. I am not at all surprised, as a matter of fact I would not have expected anything different. I look at all the support and level headedness that has, all of a sudden, grown on the leaders of this country. The NEW bi-partisan congress and house is awesome. Completely full of awe.
Imagine when we were as a nation electing the president of these United States. Gore/Bush…Gore/Bush…etc…etc…
Hypothetically speaking what if Gore and Lieberman had succeeded? I believe this would be a drastically different. I think the passivesque previous leadership would have had a completely different take on THE situation…
I do think the nation would have responded as a mirror image of what we are feeling and doing now. But I do not think the reaction on the hill would have been the same as what we have now. Any Thoughts…
President in order to handle this crisis.
Gore was not credible enough to lead and Lieberman had no real military background and his religious background would undermine his credibility in any attack on Islamic terrorists (he would have been suspected of having Israeli loyalties).
Actually, I believe you are living in a Limbaughish dream world in which Democrats are completely incapable of doing anything right. Given the situation nearly any moron who can string three words in a row without stumbling could AND WOULD have delivered as effective a speech. this is not to detract from George’s performance (and any speech is a performance) but the situation of world terrorism and thousands of dead innocents left an atmosphere in which any moderate and stirring speech would succeed.
Politics is an interesting profession and it always fascinates me how polar people who have never been involved in it think it is. These “polar opposites” you mention are things like tax policy. Things that are pushed aside when IMPORTANT things happen. You insult me and any other American by suggesting that Gore and Lieberman, men who have served their country for many years, would have divided the country on this issue rather than working to join the nation against a common foe. The only people sitting at the sidelines throwing brickbats would be people more interested in tearing the country apart to support their own sick agendas. I trust you are not one of them.
Oh please. Do you seriously think Al Gore would be a whiny little pussy in the aftermath of this tragedy? Or that Pakistan would have refused to cooperate because Joe Lieberman is a Jew?
There’s a reason the Democrats in Congress are united behind the President on this occasion. It’s because they share the same goals and agree on how they should be accomplished. If you’ve got evidence that Gore would have handled this any differently, present it. Otherwise, keep any knee jerking aimed firmly at your own ass.
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Uh, whatever impression you may be getting by some on these boards … it seems to me that our Democratic members of Congress are as angry and desirous of bringing justice to the barbarians of Sept. 11 as anybody.
If Gore would have taken the election through the means he was attemping in November, I would have howled, screamed, cried bloody murder.
And he still would have been president.
And, when the national crisis occurred, I and Republicans would have rallied around him. And he would have been presidential, and rose to the occasion.
I was just going to say the same thing that RickJay said.
If Americans learned anything this week, it’s that EVERY generation is ‘The Greatest Generation’. Much has been made in the last few years about how the WWII generation was somehow different, a better class of people. Today we’re all supposedly spoiled and silly. Well, it turns out that the people haven’t changed, it’s just that the ISSUES were silly. Now that the weight of the world has descended on America again, the people are rising to the occasion as every other generation would have.
This is a roundabout way of saying that I believe Gore would have risen to the occasion just like George Bush has. However, it’s hard to imagine that he could have built a cabinet anywhere near as strong as the one that Bush has. If you look at the people around him, it seems likely that Gore’s cabinet would have had very little military experience.
Right now, the United States has the best government it could have possibly hoped for to carry out this war.
I do not in any way thing that Gore and Lieberman have divided this nation! Not at all!
I am simply asking what would the differences have been. Had Gore and Lieberman been our president and vice, they would have done a fine job in office. However, there would have been a sly difference in thier particular views on the situation. What would those differences have been? How different qualitatively, would they have been?
I am in no way saying had they won they would have divided the country! I would like to make that clear.
Why don’t you take a stab at answering your own questions, since you apparently think there would be a difference? And be specific, else the rest of us are stuck watching knees jerk all over the place.
What “sly” differences are you talking about? I can’t imagine that Gore would have handled this thing any differently than Bush has. Possibly Gore would have slapped Brothers Fallwell and Robinson around a little more vigorously, perhaps he would have had a better relationship with Europe than Bush and would not have been quite so encumbered with an isolationist reputation, but surely Gore’s policies and objectives would have been the same as Bush’s.
Sam, despite you naming yourself after one of my favorite songs I rarely agree with you, including most of your post here, but I agree with what you said there.
OK OK minty green no knee jerk’in. I do not mean to portray any of that amateur knee jerking…
I was watching the news and after Bush gave his speech there were congressman about and they were professing their verve for the substance of the speech. I was completely emotionally moved. And very happy to see the unity of the nation and our leaders. I was wondering what would have been different had the office been different. Had thier been different cabinet members? Would we have consulted the same authorities? What difference in foreign policy would we have seen?
The hypothetical question was posed in a class this afternoon and I was quite curious about the differences as well. I do not however know as much as I should about the specific cabinet Gore and Lieberman would have had. I did find myself wondering would the differences have been that great, or would they have been quite similar.
Perhaps. Gore may have relied on himself more than Bush. We’ll never know now, nor is it important. Gore would handle this situation just as well as Bush, mostly for the same reasons: Congress would have rallied around him the same way.
I still think it was a massive clusterfuck for both Bush and Gore. And I agree that had Gore been President, I would have rallied just as much around the flag and been just as proud to call him my President. I also think he would have made pretty much the same points that Bush just did.
Okey doke, Phlosphr. I too was impressed by Bush tonight, as I think I’ve made clear elsewhere. I just want to affirm that it’s possible to do so without denigrating the hypothetical leadership of another person, which is how I (and others, apparently) read your OP.
Now here is where we part company. While I agree that a Gore cabinet would have less military experience, I’m not sure that this is really of benefit. The coming war isn’t really a war at all, an attempt to try to use the experience of the previous war (or any previous war) is as likely to harm as to help.
If we win the war against terrorism, it will be because of intelligence, diplomatic pressure, seizing and freezing of assets, and covert ops. Conventional warfare isn’t going to help much. No one anywhere has experience with this sort of warfare, but a warrior who thinks he does isn’t a asset, he’s a liability.
I have to say that I’m pleased to have Colin Powell as SoS, but I have to wonder if someone uninvolved with Desert Storm would be more palatible to the Arabs. On the other hand, maybe his experience with the previous coalition is an asset, who knows? I do believe that the perceptions and level of cooperation in the Arab world will make or break this war. I’d guess Liebermann would be a liability for much the same reason. Even a suspicion of favoring Israel harms the cooperation of Arab states.
On the other hand, Gore has better work ethic than Bush, and far more foreign policy experience. He would have a much greater command of the issues at this point. But who knows, maybe this is just the thing to make Bush work to his full potential for the first time in his life. One can but hope.
Not even close. But I trust that the government we do have will be up to the task.
I’m gonna second Milo and Sam Stone here. (I swear, the Pod People are taking over my body too damned often these days :)).
Right now, this country’s about as united as it’s possible for this diverse, anarchic country to be, and that happened - Republican and Democrat, liberal and conservative - without a whole lot of cues from those in power.
Regardless of whether Bush or Gore had won, or even if the Lord reached his hand down and put Milo or me in the Oval Office, we’d still be responding in pretty much the same way, with the main differences being more stylistic than substantive.
Like I’ve said, Bush ain’t the President I wanted, but he’s the one we’ve got, and I hope he does us proud. Last night was a good down payment. I sincerely hope most liberals in this country feel the same way.
I’m sure that if Gore had won, the vast majority of conservatives in this country would be saying the same thing right now.
So I feel exactly the same about the election as I always have, and for all the same reasons: the clear differences between the two men on taxation, energy, the environment, the minimum wage, and a host of other issues are still as clear and important as ever, reflecting the deep differences in the country. We’ll get back to those issues eventually, and when we do, partisanship will undoubtedly return. But with respect to the events of September 11 and our response to them, the election didn’t make a dime’s bit of difference. With Bush or Gore, we’d be responding in pretty much the same way.
If the USSC didn’t illegally halt the manual recounts and Gore was found to be the winner, the stuff we’d see would be almost completely identical to what we’re seeing today, except for a mirroring of the political parties involved.
The only significant change IMO would be a better understanding of the history of America’s presence in the Middle East from Gore. None of this “They hate us because we have freedom and they don’t” crap; instead, it’d be “they hate us because they think we hurt them in the past.” Still not completely accurate, but closer to the truth.
