Just let it be known, that Magiver’s plan, for Benghazi, was to drop commandos on motorcycles into the city, and then… presumably shoot badguys while doing wheelies. Aside from the fact that they possibly didn’t have bikes on pallets ready to go, the utter, vapid stupidity of that plan is staggering. No intel, no knowledge of where in the city is safe, pallets of bikes landing on rooftops or in walled compounds, no attack plan, it’s nighttime and most of the motorcycle ninjas can’t read the street signs, randomly driving around the city, listening to some drone pilot trying to give real time directions to a dozen motorcycles…
If we were stupid enough as a country to enact your plan, we’d have a bunch of deal spec-ops guys and nothing to show for it. :rolleyes:
No, all he has to do is prove it. He has a history of lying and inventing stories. And he is making the claim. I don’t have to prove something he says is not true, he has to prove that it is true.
That’s how this works. When you make a claim, you bring evidence. Actual journalists have reputations to put on the line, but Klein has squandered his.
No, it has been investigated several times, and the questions have been answered. And only those with an axe to grind are still suspicious.
He’s a pathological liar with no credibility, even among conservative journalists. I will not spend even ten seconds trying to disprove any claim of his. Why you believe anything he says is the actual issue here.
If Jayson Blair claimed two sources that Bush approved a false-flag operation that brought down the Twin Towers, how much effort would you put into debunking that claim? Your double standards are perfectly clear: you don’t believe anything the times prints because of Blair, but you’ll regurgitate anything from any whacko source as long as it plays to your own political agenda.
Do you not worry that people will begin (heh) to take your own assertions with the same lack of credibility as virtually everyone else (conservatives included) takes Edward Klein’s?
If you REALLY want to know how I feel (although it won’t, historically, stop you and your partners in insanity from believing all of the counterfactual bullshit you want to believe), I think the majority of modern right-wingers/tea partiers/Republicans ought to be rounded up and committed to an asylum, because they’re mostly completely insane and a danger to themselves and others. Maybe we can convert South Carolina…the traditional saying is that it’s too big for an insane asylum, but if we manage to catch enough of you crazy people…
No, it hasn’t. Honestly, it hasn’t. There was confusion early in the process and they weren’t sure. You have an inept and ignorant view of intelligence gathering where you think it’s easier than it is. You think a drone can look at night from miles away and just tell to everyone’s satisfaction that there wasn’t a protest at a battle site 90 minutes earlier. That’s ignorant. People went over that feed frame by frame. It was processed and enhanced over days and weeks. You assume that just looking at the screen, some analyst said, in real time, “Wait, there was no protest here, look no signs on the ground!”
As for Klein, you’re supporting a liar, who just so happens to be telling you what you want to hear.
Don’t you see how bad that is? If you can’t make your case without drivel from guys like Klein, maybe your case can’t be made?
You’re assuming you’re right and flailing around for whatever you can find to justify your position. The fact is, you’re wrong, which is why you have nothing but unrelated attacks, and conspiracy theories from known liars to support your position.
OH hell no. You’re the one who said it took hrs to launch an airplane when in reality it’s minutes. You said we didn’t have any way of inserting equipment. I cited the type of equipment available for rapid deployment. You said we couldn’t parachute stuff in because we don’t know where it would land. I cited GPS driven chute systems. I cited the standard issue stuff that is in the public domain of knowledge. Nothing hi-tech. Do you think people who plan rapid deployments using motorcycles and rubber boats and GPS chute system are stupid?
you know what we call people who show up weeks later after an attack to risk their lives? The Army. The people who go in when time is an issue are those in the various special force groups. This is what they train for.
yes, that’s how it works, when you claim there’s a protest, PROVE IT. This thread is about Benghazi and the lie that was perpetrated over it.
So it is your position that you trust pathological liars until they are proven incorrect? This is what you are posting on the Internet, and the type of argument you want people to associate with you?
There was ample evidence right after the attacks that the video played a significant role in them. Why won’t you address this fact, that has been cited by myself and others in this thread?
Again, simplistic and goofy. It takes hours to outfit a special operations raid. Not counting the days or weeks of intelligence gathering and training. You think this is easy and not necessary because you don’t appreciate the complexity.
I’m not arguing that it was impossible, I’m arguing that it’s utterly stupid. Dropping motorcycles into a hostile city is fucking silly. Blundering around that city, while getting shot at, so that you can pack survivors out on your motorcycles is stupid. Your whole position would make the worst GI Joe episode of all time.
They don’t train to have their lives thrown away because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
They thought there was a protest at first. Because the world is more complicated than you give it credit for. Your assertion that the one drone, miles away, gave all the info they’d need to rule out a protest, in real time, is again, the result of not understanding how complex the world is.
And lets be clear, this thread is about the RW delusions and misunderstandings about Benghazi, of which you are the perfect example.
That’s pure nonsense. If the WH comes under attack the response is not going to be hours while people formulate a strategy. for that matter if a school comes under attack they will get an immediate response. From regular police who have no special operations training.
Compared to virtually any combat situation in the history of the United States military this was a goldmine of advantage favoring US troops. We’ve mapped every square inch of the planet already which creates exact coordinates for gps weapons. We’ve photographed every square inch of the of the planet which provides the exact layout of any city down to the resolution of a something the size of a car. We had a drone in place to oversee the battlefield in real time.
It was never a question of if special troops could be inserted effectively. It was a matter of doing it in a timely manner. Without the foreknowledge of when this would end the proper response was to send in what we had available in the area.
[ul]
[li]The White House is in America. [/li][li]The White House is in an American controlled city.[/li][li]The White House is located in a city where the defenders would have strong operational knowledge of the city and how to navigate it.[/li][li]The White House has people on standby to defend it at all times.[/li][li]The White House is not in a city where enemies control large sections of it.[/li][li]The insertion of the defenders into the proximity of the White House is unlikely to involve SAMs.[/li][li]The White House is not located in sovereign country that we would violate the airspace of when attempting to insert defenders.[/li][li]The White House is subject to a greater level of operational intelligence than Benghazi.[/li][/ul]
The fact that you even made that argument should make you feel ashamed. It’s drivel, utter nonsense and outright laughable.
No, that is a profoundly stupid statement. We don’t move troops into other countries with no preparation or intelligence. And your assertion is, again, utterly nonsensical.
You again have a cartoonish view of our capabilities. GPS doesn’t let you magically see which building guys are shooting out of. A drone doesn’t magically let you have operational awareness of who is where, who is friendly, who is hostile and is subject to the chaos and fog of war. Your playing Contra as a child doesn’t make you a general. Real experts have said you’re full of shit. Real experts.
Gates thinks you’re full of shit and have a cartoonish view of how the military works. End of Line.
No, it would be stupid. You are advocating a stance that would get people killed for no reason. Which you’ve been shown before.
My god Magiver’s ‘knowledge’ of our military capabilities is terrible. It’s as if we put a 10 year old in charge whose knowledge of the military came entirely from watching old GI Joe cartoons.
This is not how military command and control works. When something bad happens, the leadership doesn’t just pull the trigger and ‘send in what we have available’. We don’t want to make a bad situation worse – ten Rangers and a helicopter may be available, but if we don’t do our homework and take the time to really understand what’s happening, we could just be adding ten casualties and a downed helicopter.
He’s been told this before, so I doubt one more go-round will make any difference, but what Magiver is talking about is exactly what was done. No less than three special forces teams were ordered to prepare to deploy to Libya: one from Fort Bragg, one from Spain (which arrived in Tripoli after the evacuation from Benghazi), and one from Croatia (which arrived at a base in Italy an hour before the team from Spain reached Tripoli). As it happens, because of physics, they arrived after the consulate staff had been evacuated. Furthermore, a team from Tripoli flew to Benghazi and assisted in the evacuation. Magiver is somehow able to criticize the government for doing exactly what he’s saying they should have done.
I don’t see reports of unarmed F-16s doing low-alt, fuel-less flybys to scare the crowd into submission either. Which obviously means the administration might as well have shot Ambassador Stevens and Vile Rat themselves.