Wizard of Oz/The Odessey

Cafe Society
1

My English teacher is probably the biggest idiot I’ve ever met. My class spent the last week watching the made for TV miniseries version of The Odyssey. Yay. Blood and gore.

Anyhow, now we are to come up with a list of thirty similarities between the movies (no, not the the books, the movies) of The Wizard of Oz and The Odyssey.

For the past week, she has been drilling it into out heads that the two are exactly the same, and so far, I have 9 sketchy similarities and a huge list in my head of why the two are polar opposites that happen to have a few common threads.

Does anyone have any ideas?

(I suppose I should post my list)

  1. Both stories focus on the main character’s journey home.

  2. In Homer’s The Odyssey, Odysseus had a dog. Dorothy had Toto.

  3. Athena, the patron goddess of Ithaca, was the guidance figure for Odysseus, similar to Glinda the Good Witch of the North was the main assistance for Dorothy.

  4. The wind was often used by various gods and goddesses to guide Odysseus on his way, as the yellow brick road showed Dorothy the way.

  5. In both stories, the point of the tale was the journey, not the destination.

  6. The Trojan War, for Odysseus, put him into an unfamiliar situation, as did the tornado for Dorothy.

  7. Odysseus is taken to the island of the Lotus Eaters, similar to the field of poppies by which Dorothy’s journey is delayed.

  8. At the very beginning, Odysseus fought alongside the Greeks, as the munchkins were aided by Dorothy in their fight.

  9. The Greeks fought against the Trojans early in the story as the munchkins fought against the Wicked Witch of the West.

2

Do your own homework. Try following the plot of the two stories.

HUGS!
Sqrl

3

I have been working on this for the past few days, coming up empty handed. I’m not asking for answers, I’m just looking for assistance, because I’m not getting anywhere by myself.

I will take your suggestion though, and dig a little deeper into the plots…

4

Hey, Welcome violist, and peeps, I told her that the SDMB where the place where the coll people (aka teeming millions) could answer any question, no matter how strange, so no need to get unfriendly, she made her own thoughts after all…

5

Correction the wind was only used by one God in the Oddysey. As I recall the wind God sent him on his way by using the wind to push his boat towards home and he gave him a water bag full of wind (can’t really remember why) but Oddysseus’s men thought that it was something else and opened it when they were close to Oddysseus’s home. Bad move 'cause it blew their ship of course and they couldn’t return home at that time.

Another similarity you could use is Good witch=Athena Bad Witch=Poseidon because Poseidon was pissed that Oddysseus didn’t give him the proper recognition and did everything in his power to keep him from going home.

6

Ah, thanks for the correction. I think the god captured the wind in the back to make there only be one direction of wind in the air, meant to blow Odysseus home.

I like the Posiedon/Wicked Witch idea, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you, I’ll try to interpret that into the list.

7

You ever read the Odyssey while you listen to Dark Side of the Moon? It’s pretty trippy–I swear Pink Floyd must have made that record to coincide with Homer, and no one can ever convince me otherwise. :slight_smile:

-Killerfig

8

No prob. Had to read the Oddysey twice for some of my classes for my minor in Classical Culture. If I can think of anything else I’ll try and help.

9

Guy, your teacher sounds like a nutcake. Seriously. I understand you have to humor her with this assignment, and the list you’ve gotten is fine so far as humoring her will go. But I feel the need to correct it for the sake of accuracy. (Will she let you do a paper listing the differences instead? Or is she fixated on her bizarre theory?) Like I said, your answers are pretty good (You’ve gotten more than I would’ve) given the crackpot theory you’re supposed to defend, so don’t let my criticisms get in the way of the paper.

That’s one of the (six, eight, seven) basic plots. Dante’s Divine Comedy fits the “Character trying to get home” catagory too.

**

So does Batman (Ace, the Bathound).

**

Actually, at least in the book, Glinda was the Witch of the South. And anyway in the book she didn’t do anything until Dorothy showed up at her front door. In the movie, all she did was cause it to snow on the Poppies, get Dorothy the shoes and generally not much else.

**

Brick Roads != Wind. An easy way to demostrate this is which one would you like to feel on your face! :wink: Besides, the road was just there. The winds actually did stuff.

**

This seems too similar to #1. I’d combine 'em.

**

Too vague. You’ve just described about half of the SF/F books out there. Lord of the Rings to name one.

**

This one, I like.

**

Actually, the Munchkins were slaves of the Witch of the East who was crushed by Dorothy’s house. And neither them or the Winkies (the slaves of the Witch of the West) ever did much of anything to fight back.

Seriously: Most teachers I’ve had were reasonable enough to let me do a counterpoint paper. At least, it’s worth asking. If not, the stuff you’ve listed is pretty good.

Fenris

10

Hey, aren’t you supposed to listen to Pink Floyd while you watch the Wizard of Oz, too? If I get deperate, I’ll use that…

11

Its been more years than I care to think about since I watched WoO, and I hope your English teacher didn’t tell you that the made for TV version of The Odyssey reflects the book. Remember, this was done by the guy who’s version of Noah’s ark had Lot showing up ala Waterworld type jet ski and demanding a berth on the ark!

My advice is to run down to your local library or bookstore and snag yourself a copy of The Hero With A Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell. In there he discusses how all stories are really the same story. That should give you some ammunition for your half-wit of a teacher.

On a more practical note, you can compare the scene where Dorothy and the others fall asleep in the field to where Oysseus and his crew stumble upon the lotus eaters (assuming that’s in the made for TV movie). I have no idea how she could possibly relate the Cowardly Lion and the Tin Man to anything that happened in The Odyssey. Perhaps she’s done better drugs than I ever did. (Oh yeah, and be sure to mention that Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon synch’s up with the movie as well! If you’re going to start talking about whacked out theories involving WoO you might as well include that one!)

12

Fenris - Thanks for all those suggestions. Yeah, the Toto one was a stretch, but I was somewhat desperate. And, my loony teacher told us to compare the movies…ugh. She’s a real rule stickler, thoughm and I doubt she’d let me do a contrast paper. It’s worth a try, and would be much more relevant…

Tuckerfan - I’ll go look for that book, I’ve got to make a stop at the library today. I will add the Pink Floyd note, though! :slight_smile:

13

Got to the following URL:

http://www.dcfilmsociety.org/rv_starw.htm

It’s my review of the Star Wars movies. I start with a demonstration that Star Wars and The Wizard of Oz are the “same” story.

The important question here is whether the parallels you can draw (to a greater or lesser extent) between any two stories really shows that there are significant ways that all stories are alike or whether it’s just too easy to find some similarities between any two structured objects. I haven’t resolved this question in my mind as yet. Perhaps you might want to point out to your teacher how it’s possible to do this kind of comparison between The Odyssey and other stories or between The Wizard of Oz and other stories.

14

Quoth KillerFig:

No, no, no, don’t any of you get it? Pink Floyd was the original! Baum and Homer deliberately synched their works with DSotM! It’s so obvious!

If you ask me, I’d just make up mock similarities. For instance: Oddyseus and his crew defeated the Cyclops by driving a steak through its eye. Dorothy defeated the Wicked Witch of the West by dumping water on her. Exactly alike! They both did something to the enemy that was deadly to it! Oddyseus spent most of his journey home screwing beautiful women. Dorothy met up with a lion who thought he was a coward. See, there it is again! That can’t be coincidence!

15

She told you to compare the movies. The Movies?! WHY?!

This isn’t a film appreciation class where you’re supposed to compare camera angles and lighting and stuff, right?

Hokay.

<Bullshit Mode>
When examining two such disparate works as The Wizard of Oz and The Odyssey, the rational person hard pressed to discover any similarities between the two works. However, if we examine the deeper mis-en-scene, we see great similarities in the underlying subtexture of both author’s ovures.

Both works were written by white males, so there’s a clear subtext of the dominiaton of womyn. In fact, from Dorothy, to the Witches, every strong female character feels dominated by the Wizard. And the Wizard’s male power is pure “humbug”. Thus we learn the facile nature of the male-dominated culture both writers lived in. We can see those same themes echoed in the bit with the Sirens. By showing their sexual nature, the womyn are able to dominate and control the men and only by plugging their ears (so they can’t hear the Feminist message of the Sirens) do the men reassert their warlike nature…etc
</Bullshit Mode>
(I haven’t stretched those mental muscles since college! That was kinda fun. I used to be able to write a three page paper on any non-science subject in about an hour, assuming I grabbed two reference works.)

Or we can do the “Schroder (from Peanuts)”-style book report.

<Schroder Mode>
The Wizard of Oz was a daring tale of adventure and discovery set in the Land of Oz. It’s main character is a little girl from Kansas named Dorothy who’s swept away on a tornado (mischaracterized as a “Cyclone”) and ends up in a fantastic adventure with strange characters who defeat two wicked witches and a humbug wizard. That sort of thing happened in The Oddessy too.

My favorite part of the Wizard of Oz was where Dorothy un-rusts and oils the Tin Man and he sings about “I’d hear a beat/ (thump-thump) How Sweet!/ Just to register emotion,/ jealousy, devotion” was great. An evocative number wonderfully performed by Judy Garland and Jack Haley. The Oddessy had similar moments.

Why even the striking similarities between the pre-pubescent girl from Kansas and Odysseus the grizzled warrior-king are too numerous to list, but to name one, they’re both humans. If you prick them, do they not bleed? If you spit on them, do they not get wet?
</Schroder Mode>

My final attempt would be to say “Miss Teacher? I’m a devout Olympian and your comparison of our Holy Stories to a children’s book is offensive and demeaning. I cannot do this assignment on religous grounds. I pray that Zeus does not smite you for your blasphemy.”

Good luck!

Fenris

16

Chronos writes:

> driving a steak through its eye

The fiends! Driving a lamb chop or a chicken wing would be bad enough, but they had to use a steak!

17

Wendell - I understand what you are saying, in that, at the core, all hero stories are the similar…however…I may not be giving my teacher enough credit when saying that I doubt she’s put that much thought into it.

She’s teaching an AP English course and she made us play chess for a whole day. For a grade. She is also the English teacher famous for using the wrong form of “you are”, incorrect punctuation, and run-on sentences.

But, hoefully I can run with the hero theory.

Chronos - Yes! I like it! She’d probably give credit, too. I also have this idea about how Penelope is like the ruby slippers…

Fenris - I think bullshit mode sounds good. That was why I put the bit about Toto in.

The history teachers I’ve had have always taught that the Wizard of Oz was an allegory about the gold/silver standard issue and etc.

…I always thought it was just a children’s novel.

I wish I was in her average class. They get to read Harry Potter.

18

Hey, as long as we’re on the topic, I swear I saw an article comparing (seriously…the author wasn’t kidding at all) The Wonderful Wizard of Oz to Niven’s Ringworld.

Louis = Dororthy

Teela = Tin Woodsman (had to get a heart. Needs to learn to love so she can go off with whathisname…L’il Abner The Barbarian)

Nessus = The Cowardly Lion

Speaker = The Scarecrow (had to learn to NOT scream and
leap. Although that was his job. This one makes no sense.)

Whatshername…Haplirowhasis…the Fake Ringworld Engineer = The Humbug Wizard

The Sunflower Field = The Poison Poppies

The whole “Your answer as to how to get home was given to you right there at the beginning” thing in both books.

It was a damned good article, for all that I thought the author was nuts (if he was serious) I would love to read that article again. Does it ring any bells with anyone? An author? A source?

Fenris

19

Your teachers are insane. Run for your life.

Seriously. The second book in the Oz series was had a bit gentle social satire on the Sufferagette movement (Baum’s Mother-in-Law was a big Sufferagette and Baum (IIRC) was all for it. The Gold standard thing though is kook city. I’ve been reading Baum for decades, subscribed to the Wizard of Oz newsletter, etc and NO serious scholar believes the Gold Standard thing.

Cecil wrote a wonderful column debunking this, and the best line of Cecil’s piece goes something like: Why is the Wicked Witch (representing the forces of nature) so hot to get her hands on the Silver Slippers (representing free coinage of silver)?

I’ll try to find a link to the column, but there’s a pretty good chance someone else will beat me to it.

Fenris

20

<Arnold Winkelried>
Don’t forget the link to the online column
Welcome to the SDMB, and thank you for posting your comment.

Please include a link to Cecil’s column if it’s on the straight dope web site. To include a link, it can be as simple as including the web page location in your post (make sure there is a space before and after the text of the URL).

Cecil’s column can be found on-line at this link.
</Arnold Winkelried>