I would like to speak on behalf of the men out there that DO housework!
My hubby does most of the housework. He vaccums, does dishes, cleans the dreaded bathroom and does the laundry. He cooks when I am not home to do it, which is often as I have a very demanding job the requires alot of time, and if he didn’t he would have to go to work hungry (he works 6pm-2am).
On my days off I usually do the housework, but he still does laundry. I turn things funny colours and are no longer allowed to do laundry! (Whick is fine by me!)
We share the yard work. He does do the stuff that is harder to do like digging. I take care of the flower beds and stuff like that.
If something needs to be fixed, that is his job…makes him feel like Tim Allen or something!!
If it is something I want done in the house,like painting, I do that myself…he just gets in the way
Actual arguement, verbatim:
Biggirl: What are you talking about? If I don’t do it, it doesn’t get done!
Houseman: Whaddya mean? This place is an absoulute pig sty!
Biggirl: Yeah, because I don’t do it!
When my children were born I stayed home for 2 years. I was at home and I did the housework. It just made sense. When I went back to full time work, the housework just went by the wayside. Now whoever can’t stand the mess any longer, cleans it.
Obviously I’m still thinking about such things, and don’t have a set-in-stone decision on what I want yet. Heck, I’m only 19.
I want to clarify that I said house-husband, not house-dad. I don’t want kids, or at least no more than one of them at the most. I think house-dad would be much more difficult than just house-husband.
But even if I had two or three little buggers to take care of, that appeals to me more than getting a job and working for a living.
Oh, and Medea’s Child, which girls are those?? C’mon, cough up some names and numbers!
Salieri2, your reply is the closest one to a viewpoint from the “other side,” although you are female, and as you say, you feel guilty about it. And you are aware that it is a flaw and are working to change it.
tater, at one time I really wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. Once my first ex actually suggested that, but we were already in financial sress, and I didn’t trust him enough to do that (a mistrust that was eventually justified). I admired and envied those of my friends who stayed at home with their children, and, like you, they did volunteer work too.
BlackKnight, I agree with Medea’s Child that you may not know what you are getting yourself into. Very few young people realize all the work involved in running a household and keeping it clean and/or functional.
Biggirl, I like your attitude. Angkins, you and your hubby are among the lucky ones.
I am still wondering if any of the guys who don’t help with the housework will post here and give their take as to why they don’t.
I’m sorry, but I just have to ask this:
If I were female, and had said that I found the idea of getting a job and working for a living more appealing than being a house-spouse, would you have responded with “You may not realize what you are getting yourself into. Very few young people realize all the work involved in having a career”?
I’m sorry if I sound defensive and/or uptight, but these sorts of things bother me significantly.
(There goes what passes for mymodesty for the week.)
I’m going to make a WAG that the older the guy in question, the less likely he is to do his share of the housework. (I’m aware this is a big overgeneralization, so do not send me outraged mail.) I think I’m probably on the cusp–I was born in 1963, when the stereotypical roles were still the norm, but I came of age in the early '80s, by which time the norms were well on their way to changing.
When my husband and I got married we wrote out our own vows and although we did not read them in front of the guests, we read them to each other in private.
Parts of his were:
“I, John, promise to carry all the heavy things, put away and take down all the stuff off high shelves, be both the bug killer and the squished bug cleaner-upper, to provide leg and back rubs without even mentioning sex, or at least try to, to wait patiently in the car, outside dressing rooms and on mall benches while you decide which is the perfect one out of those 7 identical white shirts. I promise to at least look away from the TV when asked “does this match” and to try to remember what colors go with what if not why, to take the garbage out because its smelly and to do any job that involves removing oil from under your fingernails afterwards.”
Parts of mine were:
“I, Jennifer, promise to cook meals that are edible if not elegant, to clean the house just enough as to not have to flip the lights off and hide if company drops by, to not nag you about eating vegetables even if I really really really think you are going to drop dead one day if you don’t eat…never mind, to tell you when that mystery light blinks on the dashboard for a week and to especially tell you when it stops blinking and stays on solid, to wait patiently in the car and on mall benches while you decide which is the perfect one out of those 7 identical computer games and to every once in awhile respond to sexual advances resulting from back rubs or leg rubs being given to me.”
So far, its working.
It may be “old fashioned” in that we both think there are “boy jobs” and “girl jobs” in a partnership but it works for us. It is also not set in stone. He, for example, does all the laundry in the house because I hate doing it. I do all the garbage that needs to be recycled because the difference in plastics eludes him.
As our relationship evolves and changes so do the “rules” and the household jobs. What works today may not work next year and so while we both think there are jobs that fall into a certain persons area of responsibility that does not mean that person is the best able to do that job.
No, I wouldn’t have, because in my (probably biased) opinion, I think that many people are prepared for careers by the training they take in college, and by internships, and even stuff they see on television.
But even if my daughters were to say they want to stay home and have babies and be housewives, I would warn them that there is a lot more to that than it seems, because so many people take the work that women have traditionally done for granted, because many of them did it so efficiently and invisibly that the people they did it for had no idea what all was involved. My mother was one of these people who did everything for all of us, and did not have us do nearly enough of it to prepare us for real life, because she did it so well and efficienty herself. It was easier than training us, I guess.
BlackKnight, we need to talk agisofia into coming from Vegas to the Central MN Dopefest so you can meet your future intended.
jawofech, I love those wedding vows, and I think any marriage that includes a lot of humor has a good head-start.
MysterEcks, agisofia, and some of you others, I forgot to mention you at that intelligence thread, but I find that so many of your posts are filled with common sense and humor, and even when I don’t agree with everyone, I appreciate the many and varied kinds of intelligences evidenced around the forums.
We have a very non-tradional home. My husband is retired due to medical reasons, and he home-schools our 16-year-old son. I am the breadwinner. I do the grocery shopping and cooking. Hubby does the laundry. (He did this even when he was working because I’m really terrible at it.) My son does the dishes, and helps cook a little. We have someone mow the yard for $50 a month. Money well spent! My son takes care of the dog. My husband pays the bills. Dusting, vacuuming and bathrooms are done by all of us… sometimes! We’re not very good housekeepers, but we value time spent together enjoying each other’s company more than a spotless house. It works for us!
Okay, let’s see. The wife (Lore) and I both work full-time, two kids, 9 and 12. We’re in the usual Barely Keeping Up With The Mess mode that working parents get into. This is how the chores get divvied up; some is by formal agreement, some because it just seemed natural.
Lore’s contribution:
Get up the girls every morning
Prepare breakfast (5/7)
Take young one to school
Prepare dinner (1/7)
Grocery shopping (1/2)
Take out garbage
Make beds
Vacation planning
Major life decisions (buy home, have kids)
Dispose of feathered dead things (we have an Enthusiastic Hunter Cat)
Kids’ contribution (They get paid for these chores):
Vacuum (once a week)
Clean toilets (once/week)
Clean sinks (once/week)
Do dinner dishes (about half the time)
Help fold laundry (about half the time)
Feed Enthusiastic Hunter Cat
My contribution:
Pick up young one at school
Prepare dinner (6/7); breakfast (2/7)
Laundry
Grocery shopping (1/2)
Pay bills
Auto maintenance and repair
Home repair
Mow lawn
Financial strategy
Heavy lifting
Dispose of furry dead things
Doesn’t really sound too uneven. Of course, both Lore and I are sure that we’re carrying the lion’s share of the load…
First let us agree that this statement is entirely valid. Two people can have vastly differing views on what is clean and what is not clean. If you are a neat freak (and exactly 4% of those anal retentive folks realize and admit they are) and your SO isn’t, there is no way you can fairly expect him/her to do chores up to your standards. As such if you want something done to your standard, do it yourself or accept your SOs way of doing it. If you think the living room needs to be dusted (which incidently is the most useless task a human can do) every week and he doesn’t, that makes it your job to do it. Basically it boils down to whether or not one person is lazy, or if one person just feels comfortable with the way things are. Stereotypically, too many women scoff at being burdened (unfairly) with 100% of the housework, but then feel that they have every right to dictate how every little aspect of it is run. They set the standards of cleaning, and what chores need to get done, as well as how its decorated and assessorized. That isn’t fair, if one person wants to impress their will on the home, then they need to be prepared to put in the effort that requires. Of course all this has its boundries, and if one person is a complete pig (and I wonder why you’d marry the pig if it bothers you so much) then he/she can’t rest on that as an excuse to never do chores, but when it is a question of vacuuming every 2 months, or every week…the person who wants it done weekly, might as well just do it. Now this difference of opinion has the side effect of the person with the high standards claiming they did a massive amount of work (which they did), but its clear that a large majority of that work was not necessary. So, how much credit can you fairly take?
After saying all that, if a couple really needs to measure the time and effort they put into a relationship at all, the relationship isn’t exactly great. So its time to examine the bigger problem.
I’ll say this, it makes me nasueaous to listen to anyone using sex as leverage or holding out as punishment. Sex is a expression of love and lust, as well as a damn bit of fun. The second it turns into a tool in your immature power struggle, I think the passion in the relationship has officially burned out. I don’t intend to ever be in that type of relationship, if I am I won’t be staying that way.
Now, I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouths, but many of you who have listed all the chores you do, while the hubby apparently does none, haven’t mentioned who does all the yardwork and remodling work, and car care, etc. I hope you all take careful stock of both sides of the situation before you go off on a rant about your chores. While you complain that he/she doesn’t realize how hard you’re working, are you accurately gauging how hard they are too? If your going to start tallying points (an error in the first place) you’d better make certain you do it fairly if you expect your SO to accept your arguement and take it to heart. Compare it to PETA, while many might agree with some of their premises, the outlandish shit they pull makes most dismiss their claims as a whole, and frequently hold malice as a result. In the household, when one party exaggerates the situation, or takes no time to consider the other side before entering a fight they SO will most likely dismiss the entirety of the claim regardless of the few valid points you make. Think about it.
Now, since I’m just 24 I haven’t dealt with this outside of the mom/dad dynamic. My parents deal with this fairly well considering. There is never any tallying of chores, or fights about how much I’ve done versus how much you’ve done. Dad works a shitload, and does all the yardwork, car care and has an endless list of home improvement chores. Because of the long hours and weekends the grass sometimes get too long, and the list of chores grows faster than anything gets checked off. Mom on the otherhand works full-time now, and for many years worked part-time while i was in school. She’s a compulsive neat freak, and extremely high strung about the situation. Now, the chores were broken down into boy jobs and girl jobs (because thats just what each prefered doing) and I don’t see anything wrong with that. They never fought about what chores needed to be done, and at most got stressed with themselves when they got behind on their share. Mom worked less, and did more chores, but made her workload heavy because she’s an admitted neat freak. Dad worked more, and did his best to keep up on his half. So, while the chores didn’t overlap much, they didn’t impress their expectations on the other person. That arrangement worked out nicely. The conflict between my mom and I ended when she let me keep my room up to the standard I wanted it, not up to hers.
The way I indend to manage my relationships is similar to my parents. While the boy job/girl job arrangement isn’t necessarily what I expect (not planning the suburban life for a while) I don’t ever expect the housework sharing to have an effect on the rest of the relationship. You do your part, and have the strength of character to finish your own jobs without being pressured into it. Secondly, when the other’s jobs don’t get done how you’d like it, don’t say a word and just trust that the partner hasn’t had the time or inclination yet (which is ok), and if you’re feeling generous do it for them to make their day.
My SO is a lot more picky about the general state of the house than I am. I tend to be messy - I leave clothes on the floor, and piles of books lay around. He likes to have all those things picked up and put away (or at least stacked neatly). On the other hand, back when he had his old apartment, he’d go months without cleaning the shower. My shower was always clean.
When we started co-habitating, we decided to take the easy route and hire a cleaning service. Come summer, we got the neighbor boys to mow our lawn. As far as I’m concerned seeing as we both work full time, it’s the best way to go. Life is too short to spend 5 days a week working and 2 days a week cleaning, mowing, and picking up. I gotta have some free time in there sometime.
As far as the rest of the work, I tend to do all the cooking and grocery shopping. He lifts heavy things, kills bugs, and cleans up after me when I go to work and leave crumbs on the counter. I think in general my cooking & shopping is a lot more work than the “guy” stuff he does, but as he’s been bugging me to give him grocery lists to pick up when needed, I can’t really complain.
I’ve offered on many occasions to quit my job and be a housewife, in which case I would happily do all the cooking and cleaning, but so far no go. Damn, that sounds like heaven to me - stay home all day, do little home improvement projects, and cook a nice meal every day. I’d love that. Granted, we have no kids, and keeping the house for two adults isn’t all that hard.
Well, yes (although this particular college student sometimes wonders how much college truly prepares him … but I digress). But don’t you think that doing chores as a child, having to take Home Economics classes in junior high, direct tutelage from a parent, and other factors prepare children for being a house-spouse? Not completely, of course, just as no college could ever completely prepare its students for careers.
I can honestly say that nobody that I know takes traditional women’s work for granted any more than they take traditional men’s work for granted. Of course, I admit that I don’t know very many people, and that I might just be meeting a non-representative sample of people.
I just find the idea that so many people take traditionally women’s work for granted foreign, like something I’ve read about in a book but never experienced in real life. I’m not saying that there aren’t such people, only that I haven’t met them.
Sounds like a good plan to me, except for the fact that I can’t make it. I have no way of getting there (except for my experimental Giant Catapult [TM]).
I work full time; my wife part time. Two kids. I am well into the latter half of my life (ahem) and earn most of our household income. For the first part of our marriage (i.e. pre-kids) the opposite was true, or we were even.
We sat down early in the marriage and divided up all the chores. We have essentially stuck to that ever since (18 years). She taught me how to cook (I am actually better at it than her by now) and I cook on weekends or when we entertain. I do the bathrooms, vacuum the upstairs, do about half the yard work. She does the laundry, cooks during the week, does half the yard work, and the kids do the rest.
People, as has been mentioned before, have different standards for housekeeping. Our way of dealing with this is an iron-clad rule. Anyone who redoes a task after the other spouse has done it is considered to have volunteered to do the task the next time.
Most men need to contribute more to the household. Most women need to realize that what your mother told you about housework can be wrong. It doesn’t have to be perfect, and nobody is keeping score.
And don’t clean my desk, damn it. I know where everything is, so don’t move it.
I’ve recently moved, and I’ve gone from living alone (bliss!) in an inexpensive city, to living with two of my male friends in an expensive city. I am also faced with the issue that others have raised - what to do when folks who live together have different standards of cleanliness? Unfortunately for me, I’m the one who seems to want the place to be very clean and tidy. I sort of decided that although it would really annoy me to be the only one cleaning, it would also really annoy me to live in a dirty/messy house. My solution: I’d rather be annoyed in a clean house. Fortunately, one of my housemates is very willing to help clean. (The other has been away a lot; time will tell.) Another issue: helpful roommate has a cat, and is responsible for all care of the cat. Unfortunatly, he only really wanted to change the litter box once a week. That didn’t seem like enough to me, since I used to clean much more frequently when I had cat(s). So we compromised to twice a week. I guess it’s all about compromise.
