I’d also like to know what proportion of it is actually threatening.
Like, genuinely made me scared, as opposed to making me roll my eyes? When I was a teenager, I’d say 1/10. Now that I’m a little older and a little more comfortable with my ability to tear a mother fucker up, I’m going to say 1/25.
I’m not thinking what she goes through is not as bad as she thinks. It IS bad, he IS a dirty old man, I WOULD want to slap him too.
It was her comment about how he is serving as an example to other men that wanted me to comment that most of the other men around him probably do not consider him as an example other than how to be a dirty old man.
Disclaimer:
I’m Hispanic, Spanish is my first language. First, sorry if I’m a bit defensive when I perceive that someone extends a negative behavior of a few to a bigger group of Hispanics.
Second, the language purist I am, I just want to make sure she knows (and everyone else reading this board knows) that the word she used is a completely innocuous word, that CAN have a double meaning, as it does in this case. Doesn’t mean it is the only meaning, or the most common meaning.
When I was younger, anything was threatening. Anything, by everyone. I was even shyer, more antisocial, and waaay less confident than I am now. And I’m still shy, antisocial, and with confidence issues.
Now that I am older? Can’t remember the last time I found a catcall, whistle, or any other comment threatening.
I live in a reasonably affluent suburb of Philly with a large highschool and community college. So lots of teen-to-early-20s white kids.
I get harassed by boys in cars pretty much every time I walk six blocks to the corner store. So, daily. Usually shouting something lewd or insulting at me. Occasionally I’ve been followed, a few times boys have pulled over and opened their car door and offered lewd invitations, though none have ever gotten out of the car.
I’ve also had a lot of older, wealthy-appearing white men harass and belittle me while I worked retail and customer service.
When I’m in Center City, the most harassment I tend to get is black men asking me out in places that aren’t social (like a bar or club) or without any chit-chat first. (If we get to talking about the price of dish detergent in the grocery store and you then ask me out, that’s flattering. If I’m sitting in a train station reading a book and you tap my shoulder and ask if I’d go home with you, that’s harassment or close to it.) Once I got followed after saying no while in a mall, but he gave up while I ignored him and started heading for security.
But it’s mostly at home in the 'burbs I take the most abuse. Again, if I need to walk someplace, I’m almost certain to be told by J. Random Wannabefratboy that he would like to do all kinds of violent sexual things to me.
I’m amazed my perspective on men isn’t more messed up, looking at this now. I’ve been getting it since I was probably about 13, I’m now 27.
Yeah, genuinely scared as opposed to eye rolling.
Those stories upthread about how guys treated you are very sad. I got a very vivid mental picture of those guys from the pickup truck.
Define “threatening”. Is “I’M GONNA FUCK YOUR ASS” shouted at a fifteen year old girl from a moving car not threatening if the driver doesn’t slow down?
I wouldn’t personally count construction guys whistling at me (happened a few times while I lived in Arizona) or even a “hey beautiful” from an old man who isn’t getting out of his porch swing as harassment, though I know some would. But a positive whistle or comment from someone sitting near me on the subway does feel harassing and threatening because he’s physically closer and inescapable until I reach my stop, at which point he might choose to follow me.
No one is interested in ME anymore. But my 20 year old daughter, my husband, and I were walking down the street to a restaurant and a big truck went by. The young guy in the passenger’s side grinned, whistled, and gawked out the window. We presume the object of his attention was our beautiful young daughter, though Mr. S stubbornly entertains the possibility that the young guy was whistling at HIM!
There has got to be a large amount of selection bias in this thread. I have always had very attractive female friends and a very attractive female wife until recently. None of them ever told me anything as widespread as this as this except for a few examples of the mild part and I am around them enough to hear or see it even when nobody can tell that I am with them. Then again, I have usually lived in affluent areas where such things simply aren’t done even by your lawn service guys and the consequences would be pretty bad if anyone did. However, I did get hit on inappropriately by gay men a whole lot when I lived in New Orleans so I guess it is possible in certain areas.
Shagnasty, I’ve never had it happen when I was walking with a man, even just friends or my brother. I think women out with men are perceived as “taken”, whereas women alone are “fair game”. I’m not surprised you’ve never witnessed it first-hand.
Also, it’s not something I would randomly share with the men in my life, just because it’s so mundane.
26, Melbourne Australia. I live in the inner city.
Mild - maybe a couple of times a year
Lewd - once ever and the guy was pretty clearly mentally ill
Harrassing - following or threatening me? Never. I did feel intimidated once though, when a bunch of middle aged guys yelled out after me cos they thought I’d ignored them when they said hi (well I had, but I didn’t know they were talking to me).
It’s pretty easy to make me feel uneasy though. I was telling my husband that I always avoided walking down a particular street at night because it was deserted compared to the other streets that have traffic and more pedestrians. He takes that street every evening to get home because it’s slightly more convenient, and we were walking down it a few evenings ago and he was like “huh. This street is pretty shifty.”
I don’t walk around in fear or refuse to go out after dark, but as small woman I’m constantly aware of my safety in a way that my tall, strong husband doesn’t have to be. So a couple of middle aged guys yelling at him he might just shrug off, but if it happens to me my adrenaline starts pumping and I start thinking really hard about my own safety. I mean, logically it’s the middle of the afternoon, there are lots of people around, and they’re just a bunch of bored guys in front of the pub; but my instinctive reaction is to feel threatened.
I never got whistled or stared at while I was with my ex or my former roommate (male).
I only mention these kinds of things when specifically asked. It’s not like I get whistled at on my way to work, and then go into the office and tell people how I was just whistled at. I don’t care that much. I may have once jokingly mentioned it to the guy I was dating, but it was more like, “Hey, that homeless drunk Mexican stranger told me I have a nice ass. Why don’t you ever make me feel special like that?” rather than something I wanted to talk about seriously.
I think you posted something similar in the other thread and someone asked you if you had ever asked them about it. I don’t recall if you replied. So I’m curious as to what their response would be. Or take an informal poll among your female friends and coworkers. I did and almost to a person they said pretty much the same thing: happens all the time. Look at the post above yours. I mean you’re already a special kind of douche to be hanging out a window and hollering at a girl, but she was with her parents!
I pretty much already new it was a fact of life that women had to endure the mild “hey baby’s” and wolf whistles; it is just a fact of life for them. The WTF? :eek: thing for me, and what I meant by threatening, were MeanOldLady and others accounts of being actually followed and yelled at for ignoring the initial contact. Being followed and called a bitch or stuck up because you were trying to ignore someone bothering you? Imagine walking down the street MYOB and within seconds being in a physical confrontation with somebody because you didn’t want to answer their calls of “hey sugar” or “smile for me beautiful.” I’m glad to see that the replies so far seem to indicate this is rare but, the fact that it happens at all blows my mind. Look at DiosaBellissima’s post. What if she had been “worth it”?
pbbth: I think your Creepy Old Man is probably just Crazy Old Man
Not wanting to hijack, but looking for some guidance… are polite and passing compliments harassment? I ask as a slightly socially awkward but mostly presentable anxiety-plagued geeky sort who has been known (on a good day) to notice that a co-worker has had her hair done and said “cool hairdo”, or noticed the tattooed and pierced shop assistant’s interesting earrings and said “really great earrings”… that sort of thing. No stare, no leer…
“Cool Hairdo” to a work associate is ok. “I see you’re wearing a thong today” is not. “Nice earrings” is fine. Walking up and touching said earrings without specific permission is not. You’re not doing anything wrong, Apollyon. It’s a matter of noticing and commenting in a respectful manner: “That hairdo looks nice on you, <person’s name or miss or ma’am>” from 3 feet away; vs. noticing and commenting in a disrespectful manner: “Ooh that dress makes me want to hit me some of that, babycakes. Wanna tango in the closet?” shouted from 10 feet away, with optional accompanying crotch grabbing.
It’s hard to describe the line, because I think it’s something most just instinctually know. Let’s see. . .
You notice the new coworker’s hair.
Ok: “Your new hair cut looks awesome.”
Not ok: “Your new hair cut is really sexy. ;)”
The earrings:
Ok: “Those earrings are really cool.”
Not ok: “Mmmm, those earrings are really sexy. ;)”
A genuine, sweet compliment with a smile is one thing; a leer, wink, moan, drawn out emphasis, lip licking, heavily breathing comment is an entirely different thing.
Thank you StaudtCJ and DiosaBellissima; anxiety averted. 
Mild: Once every few months someone will smile flirtatiously and about half of the time say hello. A lot of times I don’t notice if men are eying me up unless someone points it out to me.
Half a dozen times it was more forward, mostly when I was between the ages of 12 and 18. Guys openly ogling, slowing down in cars, trying to get your attention as you’re driving by staring at you, that kind of thing. A couple times in Calgary men approached me in public after staring at me, gave me candy, smiled flirtatiously but innocently, said goodbye and then went on their way. One of them said something like “here is a treat to keep you sweet”. I kind of liked it. Unless there was some kind of disgusting innuendo in there that I was oblivious to. shrugs
Lewd: Maybe two or three times, when a couple of rednecks in a truck thought I looked uppity in my business clothes. Or when a drunk black fellow made a comment about my ass when I moved away from him at the bus stop as he was being loud and irritating. I certainly never got any comments from men about performing sexual acts on me, was followed, or ever felt in any danger.
I’ve spent most of my life in Calgary, Vancouver, and Victoria (inner city). Early twenties. I find when I walk or take transit catcalls are much more frequent as opposed to driving. When I am dressed up nicely men treat me with much more respect, as well.
Maybe every month or so I overhear one of the library patrons saying something about me, which I coldly ignore. In the past four years, I’ve told Security about maybe three or four people.
I’ve never had anything lewd actually said to me thinking I was in hearing distance, as far as I know. I might have missed it.
I’ve never been groped in public, except on Spring Break at Daytona Beach in clubs, where I suppose consent is implied.
I live in a medium sized Southern city, if it matters. I do not sport knockers nuclear. (My knockers conventional are respectably sized.)
When I was about 13 until I was about 28, if I was out in public, without a male escort, I got mild to lewd behavior directed at me. Every time I went out and spent more than a couple of hours in public, I got a little harassment, it seemed. Several times I had scary incidents. This happened in every place I lived. If a guy smiled at me, and said something like “You sure look pretty today” in a nice tone of voice, I didn’t count it as harassment.
Several times I got invited to go back to the guy’s place, and told that I “might have a good time”, by a complete stranger. All of the guys using this line were black, by the way.
When I worked retail, guys would give me their phone numbers, or would ask mine, usually without even a bit of chatting up first. I was also asked when I’d get off work. Many times, I got bad vibes from the guys asking me this…especially when I was working swing shift, which meant that I’d get off at midnight. Sometimes the guy would find out from someone else when the shift change was, and then he’d “just happen” to be around at that time. Mind you, I’d already told every one of those guys that I wasn’t interested in dating them.
One time I was in a video arcade, when such things still existed, and was close to setting THE highest score ever on Tetris, and a guy tapped me on the shoulder and asked if he could take me home and make sweet, sweet love to me. My response was not sweet at all.
When I took the bus as a regular means of transportation, I was usually making a dozen or so trips each week. I could count on at least two instances per week of guys offering me a ride to wherever I wanted to go, when I was sitting on the bench. They didn’t offer a ride to anyone else who happened to be there, just me.
I guess the consolation prize for getting older and fatter is considerably less harassment for possessing a vagina in public. It’s almost WORTH being fat and greyhaired, just so I can walk about, going about my business, without getting harassed.
I’ve been thinking about this, and I’ve come to the conclusion that this is really about boundary issues. The guys are whistling and making comments to find out where a woman’s boundaries are. Some women don’t have much in the way of boundaries, and will encourage the guys. Most of us don’t take a random comment or gesture as a compliment, though. And some guys don’t think that women deserve to have boundaries, and will get downright abusive if they’re told to go away/fuck off/whatever.