Watched “Live Free or Die Hard” the other night, and there’s a scene where Bruce Willis and a Asian female antagonist (martial arts expert, of course) get into a knock-down, drag-out brawl. I don’t want to reveal any spoilers here, but they both get flung all over the place.
As I watched this, I found myself feeling slightly uncomfortable watching a man beat the holy hell out of a woman on screen. Sure she got a bunch of good shots in, and it was done a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it still was a bit weird. Oddly enough if it’s a woman fighting a woman in film, a la “Million Dollar Baby,” it doesn’t seem to bother me as much.
Does anyone else feel this way sometimes? If so, what films do you recall bothered you?
I found the fight scene in Mr. and Mrs. Smith quite disturbing.
Kill Bill, on the other hand, I loved, and it is the first thing that came to mind upon reading the title of the OP. I have a poster of Uma Thurman in a wedding dress holding a katana. As a general rule I respect films in which genders are treated as irrelevant to the ass-kicking.
I think I know what you mean, Shark Sandwich, but chivalry aside, if a woman’s trying to kill you, it’d be a bit…suicidal?..to refuse to fight her because she’s a chick.
Hey, I’m not saying I wouldn’t fight a woman to save my life, I guess I’d just have to do it with my eyes closed, or feel terrible about it afterwards.
I agree, there seemed to be an undercurrent of misogyny - especially when he threw her into a wall and came away with a handful of her hair.
On the other hand, the woman was plowed over by a speeding SUV and was completely unharmed, to the degree that she was up to some serious gymnastics moments later, so the whole “average man is stronger than average woman therefore shouldn’t beat on women” vibe really shouldn’t apply.
The usual convention is that only a woman can defeat another woman.
“You know what? You’re a pain in the neck!” and then Lois Lane pushes Ursa into a pit. (Superman 2)
There are countless examples where the girlfriend of the hero ‘finishes’ the villianess.
I hate that.
I have no problem with men fighting women on screen. Of course a movie like The Accused, I feel uncomfortable but if it is in the story, cry havoc and release the dogs of war.
I can think of many mid-80s Hong Kong action flicks where the guys and gals go at it. Take the last 10 minutes of **Royal Warriors ** or the last 20 minutes of Yes Madam! Or take the Korean film No Blood, No Tears. Holy crap but do the women take a beating! Of course, they eventually come out ahead b/c they are the “good guys” in these and similar films. But before they eventually prevail they are thrown across rooms, through plate glass, kicked, beaten, and otherwise pummeled. I believe in most of these cases the main actress is doing her own stunts and I can only say My God. I haven’t seen a U.S, film that comes close to some of these beat-downs. But it sure makes for an entertaining film. How could you not root for Michelle Yeoh to eventually turn the tables and kick some ass?
Nope. A fight is a fight and if someone lays hands on someone else, they should expect and deserve the same in return.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer is one of my favorite TV shows and there’re a handful of instances throughout its seven seasons where she first hit a man and got a punch in the nose right back for it. She deserved every one of them
What I see more often is a film where a woman fights and “unexpectedly” kicks serious ass, surprising everyone around here. I say “unexpectedly” because the other characters think she can’t defend herself because she’s a woman, but we, the audience, can see the cliché coming a mile away. Often in these scenes she is fighting a group of people, who would totally kick her ass if they attacked at the same time, but due to the amazing world of Hollywood choreography, they manage to stand around not doing anything until it’s their turn to get their ass handed to them.
Yeah, I wonder if *Buffy *desensitized me to this, as well. If the woman is a capable fighter, I have no problem with a man fighting her. In Blade Runner, I felt a bit squicked out when Daryl Hannah’s character was beaten, but that was mostly because she was a sexbot, not a fighting model. Can’t think of anything else I’ve seen recently where it was an issue.
Yup. In lots of kung-fu movies since I don’t know when the women are if not the best then definitely extremely good fighters and they kick everybody’s ass man or woman.
When Crouching Tiger came out some people acted as if having a couple of kick-ass female fighters was a revolutionary new idea. Kind of annoyed me. I liked the movie, though.
As for the Bladerunner scene, I think it’s supposed to make you uncomfortable. It definitely works for the story.
No, I rather like it. It’s better than the woman always standing around waiting to be rescued or only fighting the other women. It puts the female action hero on par with her male counterparts. It’s fiction; it’s not like the majority of men would withstand a fight against overwhelming odds either.
Maybe a little. But not much. In movies like Rush Hour 2, Mr & Mrs Smith, Terminator 3, Crouching Tiger, Hero and other films where the male hero fights a woman, the woman generally beats the ever living shit out of the guy to the point where the dude is lucky to pull out a win. McClane litterally had to hit her with an SUV and then drive the SUV into an elevator shaft.
It’s less awkward in movies like Kill Bill where the heroine is fighting a man because the men are generally the bad guys and are expected to do jerk stuff.
In reality, it’s totally unrealistic as a 100 lb girl is little competition for a 190-240 lb musclebound guy.
Decker even said it made him uncomfortable when he “retired” the first female replicant.
We’re talking about fights where the woman is a competent fighter, right? Then no, I don’t feel uncomfortable about it, and I wish the weak female bias wasn’t there. I find it sexist to perceive these fight scenes as “man beating up on woman”, as though it were closer to some thug beating up your baby sister or elderly aunt than a matchup between, you know, fighters.
Ditto. I also enjoy watching women’s martial arts competitions the same as men’s, including MMA.
To me a movie fight scene is all about watching well-trained people doing amazing physical feats in a well-choreographed routine. Like watching great dancers.
This is especially true in Die Hard 4. McClane is an over the hill (but still in shape) cop in his late 50s/early 60s (you might say he’s too old for this shit) who is fighting a trained female secret agent less than half his age.
As the movie showed, he was lucky to win at all, let alone worry about beating up a girl. :rolleyes:
Perhaps the best example of this is Angela Mao Ying’s stunning scene in “Enter the Dragon” (Bruce’s sister flashback). Although she kicks some serious ass, they didn’t follow the cliche in that the gang finally catches her (but she does not succumb).
…Rene Russo in Lethal Weapon 3 kicking ass in the car place.
Yet, there is still a (non-malevolent) bias in most people. It would be very difficult for me to it a woman. It’s hard to see a woman beaten in film, even if it’s a fight scene.
…TWO women fighting, as in Mummy return…that’s good.
The way Nic Cage’s cop character goes postal against a conspiratorial community of women in the woeful *Wicker Man * remake is probably the thing that Neil LaBute and Nicolas Cage got the most flak for. Well, that, and the bear suit, and some of the really awful dialogue, but most of the derisive laughter greeted the unintentionally risible scenes in which Cage draws his revolver on an island resident with a bike, to commandeer the bike,Cage punches Leelee Sobieski right in the kisser, and Cage takes on Diane Delano, who could win any “Kathy Bates Look-Alike” contest and seemed like more than his match.
