Never said it wasn’t possible or probable, Captain. What I’m trying to get from elmwood is something referred to in common parlance as “fact” along with something else referred to as “factual verification thereof.” He/She continues to post stuff that’s not from the Saudi Government even after making the assertion that Jews are not permitted to enter the country. Since Jews do now, and in the past, have entered the country (isn’t Henry Kissinger Jewish?) without hiding their religious affiliation from the Saudis, it’s incumbent upon elmwood to provide proof of elmwood’s (erroneous) assertion.
Elmwood: Follow me here for a moment. 1) You made the assertion that those who practice Judaism are not allowed to enter the country of Saudi Arabia. 2) As only the government of said country can make such a decision, I asked you if you had a valid cite from that country’s government. 3) You posted some links to other outfits, one link which shows that your original assertion is invalid. 4) I pointed out to you that none of those outfits is an agency of the government of Saudi Arabia. 5) You then posted some religous website, again not a Saudi government site. 5) Refusal and Captain Amazing posted some interesting points; however, those points are still irrelevant to the issue I’m trying to get you to actually address: that of your assertion that the Saudi Arabian government bars entry of Jews into the kingdom.
Let me know if you’re clear on this, okay?
Again, your attention is directed to a site, elmwood:
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The article was written by a Jew who was invited by the King to visit the kingdom & the King knew full well the invitee is Jewish.
I just got back from 2 months in Afghanistan. Generally, Western women wear modest dress (arms and legs covered) and a head scarf. Anything the slightest bit revealing would be considered scandalous.
When I was there a western woman went jogging in shorts and t-shirt, which is absolutely unheard of there. She was chased by a group of men intent on raping her, but managed to fight them off and escape.
Right, but what I’m saying is that it’s possible that the government of Saudi Arabia bars Jews from entering the country without saying publicly that they bar Jews from entering the country. To draw an analogy, blacks have been allowed to vote in this country since the 1860s, but, after reconstruction in the south, blacks weren’t able to vote for the most part until the 50s or 60s in most southern states. The reason was never officially “You can’t vote because you’re black”…it was “You can’t vote because you can’t pay the poll tax”, or “because you failed the literacy test” or “because you were lynched when you tried to register”.
It could be this way here. If a bunch of international organizations are saying “If you’re obviously Jewish, you won’t get a visa to Saudi Arabia”, they might know what they’re talking about, and if you’re obviously Jewish, and don’t have the diplomatic clout of Henry Kissenger, you’re probably not allowed inside the Kingdom.
Well, Captain, I’ve already posted the proof that that’s not the case. Jews can and do enter the country without hiding their religious affiliation. I even linked to the article written by one guy who definitely didn’t have the political clout of HK.
Right. I was meaning entry for non political purposes. It seems to me, though, that the article you link to, was about a special case. The guy was allowed in the Kingdom because he had written an anti-Israeli book. Journalists who are part of a press corps get allowed in, the American Jewish Committee gets allowed in for a formal meeting with King Fahd. That’s different, though, than somebody who’s trying to get a visa to live and work in the Kingdom on a semi-permanent basis. Of course, this really isn’t something worth arguing about, but everything I’ve heard does seem to confirm that if you have Israeli stamps on your passport or an identity card or passport identifying you as a Jew, it’s next to impossible to get a visa.
Some people don’t have the sense God gave little green apples.
I know a guy who worked in Saudi back in the 80s. He told me that when he quit his job in Saudi, he decided to travel to Israel to see what the country looked like. On his arrival in Israel, the Israeli’s didn’t stamp his passport, instead, they stamped a small piece of paper that they inserted into his passport. He asked them why they did that and they told him it was because if the Saudi’s saw the Israeli stamp, they’d never let him back into Saudia Arabia. Even though he told them, “But I don’t want to go back there! I hated it!” they still refused to stamp his passport. It caused him no end of trouble when he was trying to leave Israel as well. They kept looking for his entry stamp, but didn’t see it (not bothering to look at the paper still in his passport) and were puzzled as to how he got into the country.
And I’m making the distinction between “what someone heard” and “what is fact.”
If that was true, then shouldn’t Muslims, for example, not cover up/wear traditional clothing when they come to the U.S.?
But they don’t, and they shouldn’t, and Westerners shouldn’t have to throw on burkas and robes when visiting Arabic countries.
Sure, I have a simlair problem travelling to the TRNC (Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus) and have to get a visa (basically a piece of paper) stamped when I go there otherwise I would have trouble trying to enter Greece or Cyprus.
Interesting question. I guess we mostly figure it’s o.k. to expect someone to wear more clothing, but not o.k. to expect them to wear less than they are comfortable with. For example, if I go someplace where they permit topless bathing suits, that doesn’t mean I have to go topless, right?
But isn’t it a question of comfort? What if I’m not comfortable wearing a robe for whatever reason (e.g., it’s 100 degrees outside)? The real issue is who, if anyone, should conform. Should it be the visitor, resident or no one? If one says that the visitor should, the beliefs of the native take precedence over those of the foreigner, and vice versa.
The visitor should conform. When in Rome, etc.
And there is nothing in western law about the limit of how much one should wear, in terms of too much clothing. Save for issues of face veiling/ID cards, there’s nothing to stop anyone in Europe or the US wearing a full space suit in the middle of summer.
So people in burqas and native dress aren’t breaking any rules by wearing them overseas.
sleeping - you would spent most of your time here freezing to death anyway. The a/c is glacial in most buildings. I cover up more inside my office from choice, far more than I ever have in other countries where I’ve lived 
I realize that, but you also have to consider that the laws in Iran are based on religious doctrine. In the U.S., there is a separation of church and state.
Further:
You advocate the view that “when in rome, a person should conform.” What I am asking is why one party’s beliefs are any more justifiable than the other? Why can’t each person just wear what they want?
sleeping - how is that relevant? There is nothing in US secular law or church law re wearing TOO much, only - I imagine - some laws about wearing too little for public decency.
So just as you would expect a bare breasted Fijian woman (if it’s Fijian women who bare their breasts, I forget) to cover up in the streets of New York, so you should expect to cover as demanded by the laws of another country.
It’s their country, their religion, their sharia law. You can hardly expect them to bring in a separation of church and state just to accommodate foreign tourists and visitors.
sleeping: Because it’s not polite, if nothing else. There are also local laws and customs. Here, if a woman is topless on almost any public beach, she will be arrested. If a man goes naked most any public place except a nude beach, he will also get arrested. There are lots of beaches in other parts of the world where women may go topless, although she’s not required to.
At one time it was considered rude for a woman to go into many Christian churches without a headcovering. I believe there is a similar custom for men in synagogues today. Out of respect for the people whose house of worship it is, you conform, even if it is not your own religion.
As you’ve noticed, in the U.S. we have very few clothing rules other than nakedness and women’s bosoms. In other places people have different rules, more rules, or fewer rules. We don’t have a rule that you MUST bare your arms and legs. Other places do. We don’t have a rule that you must cover your head. Other places do.
Most civilized people want to be respectful to others. In some places there are actual laws, which a visitor is well advised to obey or suffer the consequences.
A non-clothing rule example: Here, it is considered child endangerment and neglect to leave your child alone in a stroller outside a store or restaurant. In some European countries it is not only acceptable but commonplace. A few years ago some tourists (from a Scandinavian country, I believe) left their baby outside an establishment in NYC and had a dickens of a time retrieving him from the authorities, who assumed it was an abandoned child in need of protection.
In some countries it is considered perfectly acceptable for a man to beat his wife and children. Here it is not. Some immigrants have had a difficult time adjusting to that.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
My brother is a pilot and he has two passports… one specifically for Israel. Several Middle-Eastern countries might deny him entry otherwise.