Muslim womans veil snatched

Not certain if this is the correct forum but no doubt the mods will decide.

It has been reported that a 49 year old Muslim woman had her veil snatched from her face by a white man in his 60s after he had subjected her to racial abuse.
The incident occured whilst she was at a bus stop in Liverpool, England.

Obviously this is a great insult both to her and the Muslim community and I just dread the outcome

Though this may be a coincidence, it’s cleary received prominence in the news, or has been prompted by, cabinet minister Jack Straw’s opinions on the veil. Mixed views in this vox pop of Muslim British Citizens.

On consideration, I think Mr Straw, one of the most intelligent people in the cabinet (IMO) knew exactly what he was doing when he provoked this debate.

Personally, I agree with every word Mr Straw said. He was careful to say it was just his opinion, and that he didn’t presribe anything at all. Of course, his words have been twisted by both extremes, as he must have known they would.

I hope that, as with freedom of speech, people will retain the the right to wear it, but the arguments against it will win out. I also hope the woman in question wasn’t too traumatised by the assault, if it actually happened (since no cite visible).

Sorry jjimm no cite available, I read it on Ceefax today

Here you go: Ceefax online.

What really puzzles me is why the women wear these veils.

I mean they cannot all be so stunningly beautiful that men would swoon at the sight of them…can they?

Also It seems that there is nothing in the koran (or whatever) that says that women should cover up their fizzers

I can’t be the only one who read the title and thought “Of course they keep their snatches veiled”, can I?

Oh, yes - ethnic hatred is a very bad thing. We shouldn’t make light of it.

Rather transparently the opposite, I’d say.

I dunno, why do western women cover their breasts? I mean, why not let 'em hang out if it’s comfortable?

Crazy westerners.

They wear them because it’s part of their culture and they consider that the proper way to dress modestly. Regardless of why she wears the veil, it’s offensive for someone to walk up to her and take the veil from her. It seems that the man fixated on the veil as part of her “ethnic behavior” and lashed out at that. Simple ethnic hatred.

I give up - you tell me. (Other than the chafing thing.)

One of us is whooshed, but I’m not sure who.

I’m not sure either: I just want to make sure you are not implying that Western morals are monolithic to the point that everyone wants to illegalize bare-breastedness. I for one don’t see the need for such a custom or law. (Unless it’s a shirt with only the breast portion cut out – those can be illegal :slight_smile: )


You know nothing.

Serious answer? This comes from an autobiographical book written by an Islamic Iranian woman that I’m reading right now, Reading Lolita in Tehran: A Memoir in Books. This scene is somewhere around 1980:

As the author makes clear, there are two meanings for the veil - a religious meaning and a political one. While I can support the religious one, and women’s choice to wear a veil for God, I can never, IMNSHO, support it for political reasons against women’s wills.

I’m merely pointing out that covering one’s breasts/head are both the same kind of clothing convention, and shouldn’t really puzzle anyone. After all, there’s no pragmatic need for either in many situations.

Would the man taken off an Orthodox Jewish woman’s head covering as well?

Come to that why don’t men stroll around with their todgers dangling out and women with their vadges flapping in the breeze…if it’s comfortable y’unnerstand

Only if he was wearing one :stuck_out_tongue: and didn’t want the neighbours to start talking

No, I don’t think this is true. While covering your breasts may have been a relgious rule once, I don’t think it is anymore. We expect and insist that athiest women, Christian women, Jewish women, and even African women who might have gone topless at home all cover themselves here. While we might privately think it’s stupid, I don’t for a second believe that a single one of us would be witness to a topless women walking down the street in front of our house and NOT be shocked or run to MPSIMS to tell the tale. The social censure is high, even among people without the religious dogma to uphold the taboo.

The veil is a woman’s sign of her special relationship and covenant with God, in its best use. It’s very much like a nun’s habit or a Hassidic Jew’s hair covering or yamulke or the prayer shawl - a sign that this woman takes her relationship with God more seriously than her relationship with any human man, and that she does so on a constant basis, not a once-a-week-while-in-church thing.

Again, I recognize that the veil has another meaning now - that of political and religious oppression, and I despise that fact. But I can’t know which expression this particular woman had in mind.

And, historically, there was a much more practical reason for veiling - it kept you from getting both wrinkles and skin cancer in the desert sun. Not such a worry nowadays with sunscreen and not letting women out of the house, but old habits die hard.

And yet in the South Pacific and parts of Africa (and possibly South America, though not sure), societies where bare breasts were the norm were made to cover up by Christian missionaries, for religious moral reasons. Just sayin’.