In this story a Muslim woman says her religious rights are being violated by requiring her to remove her veil for her driver’s license photo. The state is concerned with public safety.
Opinions? Should she be allowed to have her veil on for the photo? Is this really a public safety issue?
I say she she should have to show her face in the photo. No exceptions.
Hey Sultaana Freeman, show the DMV your mug or stay off the road
Which is my opinion, too, FWIW
Hey Sultaana Freeman, show the DMV your mug or stay off the road (BBQ Pit, July 2002).
This actually came up before in the Pit a while back when the story first broke:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123412
For it’s worth I think she should be accomodated to the minimal degree of getting some privacy for the photo shoot ( putting up a curtain, if none was already there ). But otherwise it is perfectly reasonable to expect her to have the photo taken. It is security ( and even safety ) issue and needn’t compromise her modesty anymore than minimally, when unusual circumstances force her to have to present one and her face ( i.e. to law eforcement ). Her interpretation of the Islamic modesty code is pretty extreme.
Damn you, furt!
Plus, I also agree with your opinion on legal, policy, and moral grounds. The state has a compelling interest in being able to identify drivers of motor vehicles, and that interest would be entirely frustrated by a veiled driver’s license photo.
Damn you both 
!
I think this is the first time in 4 years I’ve been the getting damned instead of vice versa.
Oh yeah? Well all of you go to hell! You go to hell and you die!
I think she should be allowed to remain veiled since that is how she represents herself to the outside world. In fact, that is how her last license was issued. She shouldn’t be punished for following her spiritual convictions. She’s not harming anyone.
In fact, say she is pulled over and hands her unveiled license to the police officer. The officer then can demand she unveil herself on the spot to verify it is indeed her in the picture. You see? It’s not “just” a photograph. This will compromise her religious beliefs on more than one occasion.
I thought that male relatives were to drive her, so she wouldn’t need a license to begin with…after all, she is following the Quran to legimate her claim that an unveiled picture of her would be against her religious beliefs and morals, so she should also be taxied by her male relatives. End of story.
Driving is STILL a privilege, therefore as the Car-Nazi would say:
“NO CAR FOR YOU!”
If she wins, then I will not want my photograph on my license either.
It wasnt all that long ago(1960’s/70’s), when no drivers license in most states had a photo on it.
I know this is a stupid thing to say, but I’m going to say it anyway. Why doesn’t she move to Saudi Arabia where veiled women are more culturally mainstream. Oh, that’s right… women are not even allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia so it would be a moot point. (Sorry, but I had to get that out of my system.)
Anyway, she needs to realize that driving is a privilage, not a right, and is regulated by the state. Driving requires that the driver be identifiable to the police. If a state say that is so, then it is so. Take off the veil for the photo and also if you get pulled over by a cop. If you are unwilling to do this, then you don’t get a license.
She’s fighting a loosing battle.
Well, well…
She wears Saudi style Niqab and Hijab, she might well prefer the Kingdom.
I would hate to break it to her, but in Dar al-Islam itself, you gotta show your mug. Security of the Umma and all that. Converts, always the most insufferable.
By the way, for the record, in most of the Muslim world women happily drive.
Suppose she agrees to give up the license. Now she wants a state ID card instead, with veil. Think the state will allow this?
The argument that “driving is a privelige, suck it up” is invalid if she can’t be veiled on a state ID card either.
Whether it’s a driver’s license or a state ID card, a picture of someone wearing a veil rather negates the point of a “photo ID”. The whole idea of a photo ID is that one’s face is a reasonably unique personal identifier. A picture of someone wearing a veil…how does that possibly demonstrate identity? How do you verify the person presenting the ID is the same person wearing a veil as the person wearing a veil in the picture on the card? Hell, this time around it could be Charles Manson under there for all anyone knows.
As many know, I live in the Middle East and have a lot of sympathy for respecting the religious needs of muslim men and women, and people of all faiths. But this woman’s demands are wrong.
Firstly, even in Saudi Arabia (where women can’t legally drive), woman now carry their own photo IDs, with their faces unveiled. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/05/11/saudi.htm
If this woman really wants to live by a very strict, wahabi-style form of Islam, she should not be travelling unescorted by an adult male relative. Therefore, that adult male could drive for her.
If this woman is concerned about hiding her face from men, then she could request a change in the law whereby in the event of an accident or traffic violation, she only must present her licence to a female police officer. Not difficult.
I regard this woman as a fanatical, fundamentalist convert, determined to be as difficult politically as she can be, and bringing great harm to the image of her adopted religion, as well as other muslim women.
Wot a silly gel. Needs a smack, says me.
Are they required to drive happily? I have their weird image of the streets of Damascus clogged with women drivers weaving around laughing gaily, tooting their horns, “50 Cent” blasting away on the CD player.
Or is it permissible to drive while sad, melancholy, disaffected, or angry?
At least at recently as 10 years ago FL did offer licenses which were valid with out a signature and a photo. They could be issued to FL residents who lived in another state, like members of the military and their spouses. Does anyone know if they still do that? If they do then I really don’t see what is the problem with giving this lady a license.
A driver’s license is simply a license to drive and it isn’t meant to be a proof positive picture idea. My husband has lost 100lbs and grown a beard since his license photo and it looks nothing like him. Does that mean the license is no longer valid and he can’t drive? Of course not.
Ahhh shaddup you silly person.