Wow Nava, strident much?
When pissed off, yes. That was actually the mild version.
It wasn’t clear from your post. You said:
[QUOTE=Nava (previous thread)]
when I was growing up (1980s Spain), “foreign tourists traveling woman-less” were generally viewed as an object of… well, not quite lust, more like you could use them to practice sexual stuff you wouldn’t want to be learning on a man you really cared about (in case you turned out to be real bad at it, or it hurt, or you finally didn’t want to go on)
[/QUOTE]
From the above it wasn’t clear that you did not do this.
[QUOTE=Nava]
And those girls were not looking for “bad boys”, they were looking for sex without compromise
[/QUOTE]
I did not say the Spanish girls were looking for “bad boys”. I said that some women (in any country) maybe use “bad boys” for similar reasons to why the Spanish girls used the male foreigners,. e.g. for “sex without compromise” as you say.
Lord, don’t I know!
My objection is to the endless speculation that every women who dates “bad boys,” has “low self-esteem,” “a heroine complex,” “wants to be the one who can gentle their bad boy,” “an ego thing,” “a martyr complex,” “wants to tame him,” or otherwise has some psychological problem in her head, with the implication that if it weren’t for that problem she’d see the light and settle down with a nice suburban banker.
If a guy was screwing irresponsible and unreliable girls, the first questions we’d ask is
- Are they hot?
- Is the sex good?
We wouldn’t feel the need to psychoanalyze his motivations for preferring Wild Wild Jayne and Rockstar Raina to Susie Homemaker and Mary Marriage Material. We wouldn’t figure that he is secretly trying to tame and domesticate her.
What is with this rush the “problem” with girls who want hot sex with a fun guy and may not put “stable, caring, good-father” as their top criteria at that moment in their life?
FWIW, I just had my own breakup with a “bad boy” and a lot of the advice I get is along the lines of “hopefully now you learned to choose better,” and “don’t worry, you’ll find a nice guy to marry soon.” While I bummed about the break up, I had a lot of fun in the relationship, don’t think I chose poorly and probably am not looking to marry the next guy I meet. I don’t conceive of my life as one mad rush towards marriage, with every detour being a deeply unfortunately delay.
Confession. I think bad boys are hot.
When you are raised in the ghetto or the ‘gutter’ or the '‘hood’, there are plenty of bad boys around, and we kind of just assume we will end up dating some. I will try to define some from my opinion.
- Bad boy thug
- Bad boy brooder/loner
- nice guy
- good guy
1.Bad boy thugs are common. I hear a lot of people mocking thugs about ‘yo dawg, keepin’ it real’ all the time. I think they must think these guys are faking it or trying to be hard or whatever. Not usually so, in the 'hood. The truth is a hard life will have an effect on your demeanor, and that effect is often a hardened, cold kind of edge. They develop a certain style that people who don’t know a thing about gangs like to mock and call ‘gangsta’. Guys like that are often very good guys, though. They just carry this edge with them that to me is straight up sexy. Those kind of bad boys are hot.
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Bad boy brooders are less thuggish types and more loner types. Quiet and dark in their personality, they can be difficult to get to open up, but once you do, yes you do get that rush of, “yes, I got him to open up to ME only!” I married this one.
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Nice guy are guys who not only lack any of the edge or danger of the bad boys, but on top of that, they sometimes whine and complain that girls don’t like them because girls ‘only like guys who are mean to them’ or whatever nonsense they tell themselves.
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Good guys are guys who lack the edge and danger of the bad boy but is still a great guy. They don’t whine about girls not liking them because they are too nice, they don’t come off like a coward who would be the first to run if a mugger approached, so they don’t have that nice guy syndrome. At the same time, they may not smoke or drink or have a criminal record or a hard knock background, so they aren’t the bad boy. Just a regular guy, maybe a salesman or a teacher. Good guys are hot.
I think bad boys are sexy. Even the ones with the criminal records can be hot (and great guys, too. The game is rigged). It would never occur to me that I need to fix him or change him or any of that jazz. I would think how intense the times with him are, and then move on.
I think what most women crave is the outward, conventional bb. He has to be in-your-face and performative about it: the black knight. The archetype is the turn-on, not the clean-cut rebel-at-heart.
Yet from what I’ve read of your threads (haven’t read them in detail, so forgive me if I’ve got this wrong), you broke up because of his lack of emotional availability. Whilst you may not be looking for marriage, that doesn’t strike me as the attitude of someone who just wants “hot sex with a fun guy”. That to me sounds like someone who wants more emotional intimacy than a “bad boy” is ever going to be willing to give.
I don’t mean to that sound judgmental, and again, I’m sorry I’ve misinterpreted the situation.
Personally, I’ve been in both committed relationships and non-committed relationships, but they’ve been with kind, respectful men* who’ve treated me well - and on the odd occasion when a man has tried to mess me around or play mindgames with me, I’ve got out straightaway. So yes, I find it hard to understand women who don’t do the same, and do wonder why it is they don’t expect to treated with respect - whilst acknowledging that what that looks like will differ depending on the nature of the relationship.
*Not all of whom have been “nice suburban bankers”, though I did marry one of those!
Agreed. There is a huge difference between a nice guy and a Nice Guy. I have a nice guy at home; he is clean-cut, respectable, intelligent, lets me have my way most of the time, but will. not. budge. if it’s something he feels strongly about. He doesn’t want me to be a prude or to be dumb but is not any kind of a bad boy.
Me, I never went for the bad boys but once, and that one time a) it was for a short-term affair and b) he turned out to be a really affectionate, loveable sort of rogue.
Can you describe what made him a bad boy? I ask to get some idea of what people mean because these discussions often cruely lack basic definitions. I’m not asking you to come up with a comprehensive definition yourself, just wondering what made that specific person a bad boy.
Yeah. If we “only knew Tyrone like you do”. They may be “keepin it real” and maybe the way they act is acceptible behavior where they are from. But outside of da hood, they sound and act like an uneducated r-tard. That’s why people mock them.
Of course the appeal of the “bad boy” is when you feel put apon by the system like many a hood-rat, trailer park princess or even your run-of-the-mill troubled suburban teenager often does, there is a lot of appeal to the sort of guy who doesn’t give a fuck and makes as much trouble for that system as he can.
Plus he usually has the best drugs.
Also, I thought I’d give you this cheat sheet:
- Bad boy thug - 2Pac
- Bad boy brooder/loner - 50 Cent
- nice guy - Cee-Lo Green
- good guy - Usher
- pimp - Snoop Dogg
Why do you assume that? If I were seriously looking for emotional intimacy, I don’t think I’d be looking where I’ve been looking. My actions alone show that I’m not really making that a priority. Don’t listen to what people say, look at what they do. That shows what they are really looking for.
Yeah! I mean, at my age, it’s more likely a DiShawn instead of a ‘tyrone’ but you get the main gist of it!
:dubious: “Tyrone,” huh?
Now I’m confused, too - I thought you broke up with the guy because you weren’t on the same page emotionally (he was emotionally damaged and unavailable to you or anyone else). I also assumed that you were looking for someone emotionally mature and available for emotional intimacy. Haven’t you also mentioned that you’re interested in having kids in the near future? Like it or not, a stable relationship (usually married) is the healthiest environment to raise children in, and that doesn’t usually happen with a Bad Boy.
“It’s a woman’s prerogative to change her mind.”
I would ask a woman this:
“What’s the difference between a bad boy and a bad man?”
Usually the difference between a social faux pas and a crime. A bad boy may do something outrageous, dangerous, or illegal, but there is usually respectable or at least understandable a reality-based reason behind it. A bad man breaks the law and commits dangerous or criminal acts when it isn’t necessary or reasonable.
I know, right?! I also think the reason gas is so expensive is because it costs so damn much, kids grow up fast because they get bigger in a short amount of time, and people get hungry when they want to eat.
Exactly. I have confusing and contradictory desires. I would like to have kids one day, and biologically that day is going to have to come sooner than later. But I don’t really want to have kids now and can’t really picture it in the near future. I’d guess that what is going on is that I am mentally dodging the entire question by dating guys that I shouldn’t have kids with, and that is probably a big part of their appeal to me- they satisfy what my heart wants (freedom and independence) over what my pesky head wants- and that’s hawt.
In other words, picture the guy banging flaky girls because he’s freaking out about the fact that it’s about time to settle down. Women do this, too.
But let’s expand this from my personal story. What I’m getting at is that women may have perfectly reasonable motivations- not just stupidity or craziness- to pursue relationships with unstable guys. They may not be entirely aware of this or able to articulate it, but I think if you look, you will find that there are incentives at play.
Sorry to rattle your cage Nava, but how would you know this?? 