Wonder Woman movie rumor

Cafe Society
41

Uh, no. You said she was out of continuity, she is not…she’s been reconned. As has Wonder Woman, has as Diana Troy, has as Paradise Island. Now if you’re talking about the “twin” thing, you got me… Did the crisis wipe that clean? However the character is still in continuity, renamed the more PC Nu 'bia.

She has one storyline in WW, but appeared in other comics, unlike Lois Lane’s one time blackness and BTW is this is the reference you’re referrig to?:

Not exactly saying that the character was created for or treat as Lois Lane becoming black, is it?

It was suggested that having a “black” woman as an Amazon, wasn’t possible. Well we have one. We had one in Pre-Post crisis. It was sugested that Diana was unique; clearly she’s not. She may be now, but she wasn’t post-crisis.

42

Oh, you’re addressing my afterthought, not my argument. I get it. Sure, there’s now a similar character in continuity - apparently, not one they’ve done anything interesting with. Not, important to note, a once-clay-statue animated by the Gods, like Diana, anymore.

It was done for the same reasons.

I didn’t say there couldn’t be a black Amazon. That was someone else. I said that Diana was unique, and that she was Wonder Woman. She is.

43

In that case, so was the concept of Wonder Woman. To create a female society away from the “influence” of men. What other reason except to put forward the image that women can be as ‘strong’ as men…as long as they’re no men around, of course.

My question is I guess, what ‘good’ non PC reason is there to introduce non-white characters into a previously all white environment? There’s a difference as the author noted between the treatment of Lois Lane and social awareness and how they treated for the most part the Nubia character. They wanted to revamp the book, it was 1970, it seemed little sense NOT to add diversity at a time when diversity was knocking down the doors…especially after the latest WW recon.

Was the creation of the New Mr. Terrific the same reason as Lois Lane becoming black? Why not?

44

Look, I don’t give a shit about PCness. I just think that the presence of Wonder Woman is more important than a physical characteristic, whether it’s eye color or skin color, and that Gina Torres has that presence in huge amounts.

I’d have trouble with, say, an Indian James Bond, because Bond is such a classic Good Old Boy of the British spy network: his pasty whiteness is intimately tied to his whole schtick. But WW’s pasty whiteness isn’t, as far as I know. So it can be secondary to the whole buttkicking thing.

Daniel

45

But they didn’t really add diversity. They showed a tiny, flash-in-the-pan spark of a glimmer of a nod to diversity, and that was it. If Nubia had become a supporting character in the Wonder Woman book, or got her own semi-regular backup feature, that would’ve been actual diversity. “Recon”, by the way, is short for Reconaissance, as far as I can tell. Unless there’s been an addition to the comic slang lexicon - I think you might be looking for ‘Retcon’ - short for Retroactive Continuity.

Uncertain. In the 70’s, we had the wave of blaxploitation in comics, as Marvel and DC both tried to tap into the potential of the African-American market, and inject political awareness. We don’t really have such a trend now.

The key difference between Michael Holt (the new Mr. Terrific) and “Black Lois” or “Nubia” is the handling. Michael Holt is a talented guy, very smart, with tragedy in his life, who is inspired to follow in the footsteps of Mr. Terrific. He just happens to be black. No retcon, plausibly and organically written. “Black Lois” was introduced for one story, the point of which was social commentary, and written (as were many Silver Age stories, admittedly) with a ridiculous plot device. “Nubia” - even her name betrays the political winking going on - was retroactively inserted into Wonder Woman’s origin story.

46

Jeez, though. My other problem with casting Torres in particular is that Wonder Woman’s supposed to be really goodlooking, and Gina’s attractive, but not really a stunner.

47

See, now that’s just crazytalk.
Daniel

48

Agreed. Even Lucy Lawless, while quite attractive, doesn’t have quite the right feminine beauty for Wonder Woman’s role, IMO.

I still vote for Stacey Williams.

49

So, I guess, we can all agree that Minnie Driver is right out?

50

Her? Not bad at all, but at 36 years maybe a little old for the part.

51

Why am I suddenly picturing Janet Jackson losing control of a golden eagle brassiere?

52

I weep for humanity.
Daniel

53

Nubia’s worst than “Black” insert power after black? Or Sabra, the Israel’s mutant?

I understand your point and I’m not trying to be a dick, but I don’t get why this is important. Her origins as you admit were no more ridiculous than the usual fare for that time period. Where did Wonder Girl come from, is her origin any less retroactive than Nubia’s ? How many times has it been retconned?

It would have been nice to live in a society where it didn’t take 40 years of a comic before a person of color could be even introduced into the storyline as an equal, but we didn’t. It would be great if non-white characters had code names that didn’t signify their color over their powers; but we didn’t. That’s history.

Popular media, has a responsiblity to reflect, well popular culture. I can’t see fault with at least trying to do something…current. The fault I do have, is with the relutance to keep going…but again the bean counters at the time felt that having black characters didn’t sell books or writers didn’t ‘know’ how to write them.

It was the 70’s and both publishers were trying to fit in. The Black Panther was introduced in 66, he didn’t get his own book (jungle action) until 1973. I think Kirby wanted to call him the Coal Cat. He had the Black Racer, Vikyn the Black…You don’t think Gravedigger, or Gabe Jones were created to create diversity as well? Or Amazing Man in the All Star Squardon? Luke Cage, John Stewart, Tyroc, Black Goliath, Storm, Vixen? The list goes on… the New Dr. Midnight female & black, the new Wildcat, female & Latin. Nods to diversity? Glimmers…?

If their reasons for existing are the same as Nubia’s, then what’s the difference? How many books they were in? Luke Cage ran for years and for the most part only fought/interacted other black characters, was that diversity? (before he joined Iron Fist)

Again, even Wonder Woman herself was created for the same purpose. The point I’m trying to make, is that someone has to say, “Why can’t it be a woman, why can’t it be a black person, why can’t it be an Asian?”…and unless the industry changes, i.e more people of color are calling the shots, then it’s gonna be a white person deciding that diversity is important and hopes that the character catches on and transcends it’s origin.

You seem to be diminishing the character, because her creators were behaving within the scope of their society at the time they created her. I realize she wasn’t a major character, but neither was John Stewart, until somebody decided it was time.

Sorry for the hijack, guys.

54

I’m not sure it is a hijack. My feeling is that unless race is integral to the character, the part should be cast independent of race.

For James Bond, race is integral to the character. If they made a movie about Thor, race would be integral to the character. If they made a movie about Cleopatra, race would be integral to the character.

But for Wonder Woman, I just don’t see that as being the case. So I think the part should be cast with the best actress, not necessarily the best white actress.

Daniel

55

Post-Crisis, there are all kinds of Amazons. Phillipus, the current head of state, is the most prominent example of a non-white Amazon (she’s black), although there are others. The island is still overwhelmingly white, but there are other races. For the record, there’s nothing really “Greek” about the women as far as race is concerned. They were created from the souls of women mistreatead/killed by men all over the world, so there’s nothing necessitating a white Amazon.

And while Diana pretty much has been Wonder Woman, it’s worth noting that her mother, Hippolyta, was the Golden Age WW in the current DCU, so it’s a title she sort of shares.

That said, I don’t really see a major WW revamp if a black actress is chosen to play her. If that were the case, why didn’t they do that to Catwoman?

And even if it does happen, WW is a character that could desperately use a revamp. George Perez is a fantastic artist. He should never be allowed to design a costume ever again, but he’s a fantastic artist nonetheless. However, he screwed up when he revamped WW, and DC hasn’t been too kind to her since then. A revamp could do her a lot of good.

And actually, I’d rather see Diana as a black woman for the simple reason that I think the costume looks better on someone with darker skin.

56

For some characters, it’s really the powers, or the name, that define the character–Green Lantern, Flash, Captain Marvel (both the DC and Marvel versions), Thor, Robin, Iron Man.

For others, it’s the person–Superman isn’t Superman unless he’s Clark Kent. Likewise, Batman, Captain America, Spider-Man, and a few others are so strongly tied to a specific version of the character that it’s just not the same character if you substitute some radically different version. With characters like these, if you want to have a radically different version, you have to keep the original around and add the others as a spinoff. Thus, it’s ok to have a female version of Spider-Man (Spider-Girl, all three Spider-Woman characters), because she didn’t replace him, but was added to the existing continuity.

The debate here seems to be whether Wonder Woman is a title for whoever is the chosen emmisary of the Amazons, or if she has to be Diana. Internally–withing the DC universe–the issue is debatable. Externally, Princess Diana is the one true Wonder Woman.

Let’s go back and revisit Captain America 1985 for a moment. Steve Rogers is asked to work directly for the federal government as their agent or give up the title Captain America, including the costume and shield. He refuses to give up his autonomy, and is stripped of the title and costume, which are given to John Walker, an enhanced super-soldier who used to be the Super Patriot. Steve adopts the title The Captain, and contiues fighting for justice, while the new Captain runs amok, eventually committing cold-blooded murder. Steve eventually returns, takes out Walker, and returns to being Captain America.

This was the plan all along. By replacing Steve with someone who was similar to him in some superficial ways, but who was otherwise much different, it helped bring focus to what it was that made the character who he was. We define characters as much by what they aren’t as we do by what they are.

This has become a standard superhero storyline. Help define what a character is, by showing us what he/she isn’t. Putting someone else in the costume helps to define the character of the person in the costume as distict from the costume itself. But the plan is always to eventually bring back the original, now with a new focus as a result of having been gone. They did this with the death of Superman, with Knightfall, and twice with Wonder Woman (this storyline was, by the way, lifted directly from Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman). Others have worn the title and the costume, but the purpose was always to further define Pricess Diana by showing us a Wonder Woman who lacked some important quality she posessed.

Not post-Crisis. The Amazons were all created by a goddess animating mud with the souls of women who had been murdered by men. Hippolyta was the first woman murdered by a man, and thus was made queen. She was pregnant at the time, and the soul of her unborn daughter later became the life force that animated Diana, so Diana is her true daughter. Amazons, in general, can be of any ethnic group.

However, pre-Crisis and post-Crisis both, Hippolyta is Greek, and thus, so is her daughter. Part of what makes Wonder Woman Wonder Woman is that she’s the Queen’s daughter–it adds drama to have Diana forbidden to enter, then have to disguise herself to win the tournament. But that doesn’t mean that any Amazon can be Wonder Woman. The original tournament and subsequent ones are story devices intended to help define the character. But the character herself was concieved as the daughter of the queen.

It helps to define her character by temporarily having her replaced by someone different. But it always comes back to Princess Diana. She’s tall, beautiful, a young adult physically, muscular yet feminine, and has long black hair, and fair skin.

57

Face it, it’ll be hard to find anyone who can fill Lynda Carter’s, er, boots.

58

I’m not advocating Gina Torres because she’s black, but because she’s tall, statueseque, buff and as has been mentioned by others, has TONS of presence … charisma. I saw her in a short-lived SciFi Channel series called Cleopatra 2525 and was really impressed. I think she’d be a great Wonder Woman.

Now, there may be some unknown but tall, tanned Caucasian chick with dark hair, a buff bod, statuesque figure and a ton of charisma (it sure ain’t Charisma Carpenter, a misnamed gal if ever there was one). And if such a person is chosen as Wonder Woman I’m cool with that. Just don’t serve up some wimpy-ass white chick with pipestem arms and legs, no tits and a goneass, and try to tell me she’s a better match for the role of Wonder Woman than Torres. (Like, for example, Eliza Dushku.)

59

After all the discussion so far, I’m back to either Lucy Lawless, c’mon she’s 6’ and built right. As far as her being too old, I say bull. She’ll be 36 next year. A little makeup and she won’t look older than mid-20s. Her acting on Xena proves she has the physique. Plus her cult following will only add to the audience.

60

I still think Stacey Williams has the right look. Lucy Lawless may have the right build, but her face (lovely though it may be)isn’t quite right for this role.