And* in Modern English*, sports teams with the word “Celtic” in their name pronounce it /ˈsɛltɪk/ . Be consistent in your pedantry, please.
But even Classical Arabic changes - it has to, because the world changes (there wasn’t a word for “computer” 100 years ago, after all). Who decides what the new words are, and how they’re pronounced? And who makes sure people in Morocco and in Yemen pronounce them the same?
Sure, it referred to a person who did calculations.
As a Dutch person this one does annoys me. I understand that the correct pronunciation with the two gutteral g sounds is impossible for many people, but I would have thought “Van Gogue” was a much better approximation. The Goff one makes no sense at all!
And people seem to take a certain amount of pride in maintaining this ignorance. It’s baffling. It’s like a phonetics-based nationalism.
There seems to be a degree of petulance involved—“IPA conventions conflict with what my first-grade teacher taught me about pronunciation symbols, so I’m deciding to hate it. And one or two of the symbols are counter-intuitive in my accent, so it’s stupid.”
Of course the whole point of a tool like IPA is to understand pronunciation of people who don’t have your accent, or phonological set, so why would you think it should be designed just for you personally?
Clearly not. Otherwise no-one would ever be able to learn IPA in the first place.
Speaking to people is a pretty simple way of communicating pronunciation. I suspect that even IPA has to refer, at some point, to an actual example sound.
And clearly not because** BigT** managed to do it without me needing the additional IPA symbols.
Oh please, don’t be so melodramatic. There is a cost in time and effort to learning any new thing and it has to be balanced against the benefit one gets from it. IPA has added nothing to my life and I see no need to learn it, I have other far more important things to do. For the vanishingly rare cases where I need to know how something is pronounced I’ll make do with other methods, no problems so far.
There is an epidemic of taking a j sound from any language and pronouncing it in the French style (a voiced sh). For example, the restaurant chain Maggiano’s has a soft g that is pronounced as in magic, but people think it is more exotic to say Mazhiano’s. There is no such sound in Italian.
Haha! In 5th Grade I corrected my teacher’s mispronunciation of “mischievous” with EXACTLY your explanation! (Did I mention I went on to teach English? Heh.)
It’s the same with Indian words. Folks pronounce “Rajiv” with a French-like “J,” when an ordinary English-like “J” is called for.
Gouda. Only in America is it “goo-duh.” Everyone else calls it “ghow-duh.”
Can’t let a pronunciation thread exist without expressing my loathing for the sound of someone saying “REEseez” Peanut Butter cups. How did this even start?:mad:
I might be the incorrect party on this one, but I believe Bejing is meant to be pronounced “Bay Jing” as opposed “Bay Zjing” (sorry, I don’t know how to do the IPA thing but think of the first sound in Zsa Zsa Gabor’s name.)
And why can’t professional, newscaster types not prounounce the “u” in Jussie Smollett’s name? I realize that people who hadn’t heard of him until the scandal might hear someone talking about him and think they’re hearing “Jessie” but media people are reading a teleprompter!:smack:
“LINUX”? Like Peanuts’ Linus, right?! Never heard anyone say “wheelbarrel” instead of “wheelbarrow.” Never heard any American say “CopenHAHven” instead of “CopenHAYgen.”
Nobody mentioned the common “forte”! When meaning “strength” it’s plain old “fort.”
I’ve heard “supposably” for “supposedly.”
Apparently “Feb-uary” is now considered the common pronunciation of “February,” but I find it grating without the first “r.”
It doesn’t sound like nobody cares; it sounds like lots of people care. I would care too if people kept mispronouncing my name or that of my hometown.
Linux: http://www.paul.sladen.org/pronunciation/torvalds-says-linux.wav
Beijing: How to Pronounce 北京 (Beijing) in Mandarin Chinese - YouTube
I have a counterexample that people automatically pronounce “j” to sound “French”. A lot of Korean Jung/Jeongs get annoyed when people confuse their name with Carl’s.
I believe “pay-ching” [peɪ tʃɪŋ] would be a closer Anglicized pronunciation.
The j represents a sound [tɕ] that isn’t phonemically distinct in English. The cononants are unaspirated, so the p is more like in “help” than in “pink.”
That sound is commonly represented as “zh.” In IPA it’s [ʒ].
Speaking of Boston teams, natives pronounce the hockey team “Broons.” Rhymes with prunes. One syllable, and a fast one at that. The rest of the world has it wrong.
And don’t get me started on 'MOON-au-kee, New Jersey. One of the cities most mispronounced by non-natives.
My impression is that in the UK, most people “split the difference” re the above, by saying “bona FY-dees”. The second word is not right Latin-wise; but people will, pronunciation-wise, mangle words of classical / foreign languages in one way or another… (Fans of weak humour over here, enjoy pretending to think that the Latin expression means “Fido’s bone”.)
For a while in this thread, I felt a bit bemused by the “sherbert / sherbet” controversy; then recalled the thing about rhotic pronunciation, fully involving “r” 's – prevalent in the US, but not in the UK. In Britain, we generally say the word: “sher” (to rhyme with “blur”)-“buht” (with the weak sort-of-nothing semi-vowel, or schwa). (I suspect that the whole "sherberRt with the ‘r’ " thing – written, and spoken – is given rise to, to some extent, by the existence of the forename / surname Herbert.)
Actually, sherbet (however spelt / pronounced) does not seem to show up much in general British discourse nowadays – it’s not at all prominent on the eating / drinking scene here. In times gone by, various British sweets (=candy), prominently involved sherbet; but that seems to be largely out of fashion now – such things found only in dedicatedly old-fashioned sweet-shops.
Or you could go all swankily back-to-the-Indian-roots, and call the stuff “haldi” – its name in the places most associated with it 
.
Lots of people in Britain, too, call it “goo-duh”. The English have long had a name for being untalented with foreign tongues…
I see a case to be made, for bringing “supposably” into the language as a new, and respectable, word. I’d say that there is a gap which it could fill: for the meaning of “it might reasonably be supposed that…”. “Supposedly” in my perception, refers a supposition which is held by many people; but is, in whatever degree, not totally correct.
Oh, for heaven’s sake. Are you also going to insist that everyone who participates in this thread also have a working knowledge of Grimm’s Law, the Great Vowel Shift, and Chomskyian deep structures? Yes, IPA is the best way to describe pronunciation. But not everyone is familiar with it, nor can everyone type it. My phone’s keyboard, for example, can’t reproduce super- or subscripts, or ashes and thorns. It also can’t produce a tilde; does that mean that I’m therefore barred from any discussion of chile peppers because I can’t spell “jalapeno” correctly?
Generalizing one poster’s dismissive comment about IPA as a board-wide slighting of the entire science of linguistics is a helluva overreaction.
Three syllables?
I can’t find ʒ on my keyboard.