The British version of jewelry is “jewellery”. I’m guessing it’s pronounced as you described.
Thank you, thank you! I listen to a lot of podcasts and I keep hearing impordant. UGH
Another one I notice is were-ent for weren’t. I looked it up to make sure I’m not pronouncing it incorrectly…I’m not.
Car-mel was used predominantly in advertising until at least 1979:
That seems to have changed in the early 80s:
I occasionally hear an even muddier version that sounds more like “impor’n”, but that usually occurs in rapid, casual speech. English is a quasi-tonal language with enough phonic separation in its elements that really sloppy speech can be resolved by its color, rhythm, melody and, of course, context.
Well, if you say san pay-dro you’re adding a vowel 
Did the second “c” in Connecticut used to be pronounced?
They’re great as definitive sources of information on how people use and pronounce words. As long as you’re not using them to tell you what’s correct.
Listen up, you non-linguists! If you can’t be bothered to teach yourselves IPA, and find a plug-in or app that allows you to type IPA characters on your phone, or at least go to a dictionary website, figure out how the word is rendered in IPA, then copy-and-paste that into your response, then you’re not taking the thread seriously enough. Likewise, unless you know how to change your own oil, sparkplugs, and timing belt, don’t presume to post in the “Most interesting car you’ve seen today” thread. And don’t even think about joining any of the baseball threads in the Game Room, unless you can fully explain the infield-fly rule. :rolleyes:
(Bolding mine). There you are. The reason that coupe is pronounced “coop” in English is because we don’t have the French accents. And yes, “coop” is the accepted pronunciation in American English. Because it’s an English word.
Yes, I know it’s originally a French word. But when a word is adopted by an English-speaker and used in an English sentence, it becomes an English word, subject to that language’s grammar and phonology. Works the other way, of course; I understand from English: the Mother Tongue that the French have adopted the word pipeline. But, being French, they pronounce it “peep-lean”. Is that wrong? Of course not; that’s how you pronounce the French word pipeline. They’re under no obligation to pronounce it contrary to their phonology, just because it came from English. And neither are we.
Uh, no. That’s not what I said. I was responding to someone who described IPA as “a mess” and who expressed similarly ignorant views about it. And that’s not the first time I’ve seen such nonsense posted on this board.
And in no way is IPA the equivalent of repairing your own car. You are writing on a message board, so you know how to use writing to transcribe language. The IPA is not significantly harder than learning to read and write English, and I would argue is even easier. It’s easier than a lot of things people learn to do every day, like use a new piece of software or gadget.
Fair point, and yes, that comment was ignorant. The IPA is the best system we have to render speech phonetically. I withdraw my snark.
But as Alessan pointed out, non-linguists have no need to learn it. And I mentioned that not everyone participating in this thread has the capability to reproduce it. I don’t, even if I were conversant in it - my phone’s keyboard simply doesn’t have the characters.
And how long did it take you to learn to read and write in English? Took me a few years. But regardless of the ease or difficulty of learning the IPA, the implication that not having a working knowledge of it should bar anyone posting in this thread is unreasonable.
This is blatantly insulting and I am surprised to see such a tone expressed here. What is going on with you?
IPA is a system where “ʙ” does not represent the common “b” sound in a lot of languages. Ditto “ɢ”. Plus a ton of weird symbols like “ɰ̊”. I’ve learned Russian and this makes Cryllic look like child’s play.
In addition the guides that a symbol is pronounced like a given letter(s) in a word all too often misses the variant pronunciations.
Take good old “e” (which isn’t an “e”, of course.) For American Englsh it’s listed as the vowel sound in “may”. Guess what? Not all Americans pronounce “may” the same way. Some are more gutteral than others.
And on and on.
I am a Computer Scientist. We go to great lengths in specifying things in programming languages, forms, etc. so that there is no ambiguity. IPA is not even on the same continent in terms of rigor.
It is a mess.
And going around insulting people who have perfectly good reasons is hardly going to do your stance any good whatsoever!
You are so incredibly wrong about this you need to completely re-evaluate where you are coming form.
There are a lot of things that one might not need, but once acquire find extremely useful. Me, for one. I’m not a linguist. I have no degree in linguistics or related fields. I have no formal education in linguistics or related fields, other than a 10-week course on speaking for broadcasting. I learned IPA on my own for no other reason than I like talking about pronunciation in a text medium, and there is no other way to do it that comes close.
Do you think I have some special keyboard that is issued to licensed professionals? I have the same keyboard and software you do. There are at least four methods for using IPA online.
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Using an online keyboard such as – Type IPA phonetic symbols - online keyboard (all languages) – that allows you to point and click at special symbols, compose a message and then copy and paste into a message board
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Typing a message in full using the regular keyboard and then supplementing the special characters by cutting and pasting from somewhere else, such as Wikipedia – International Phonetic Alphabet chart - Wikipedia
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Composing in Microsoft Word, whose Insert Symbol function has all the IPA characters, and then copying and pasting
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And, ho, if you don’t want to do any of that, there’s always the option of skipping the special characters altogether and using ASCII IPA – Kirshenbaum - Wikipedia – which uses common keyboard characters to replace harder-to-find special characters
Show me one time in which anyone said or even implied that failure to learn IPA should bar participation in a thread. This sounds like defensiveness to me.
If you have any interest at all in discussing pronunciation on at least two occasions in your life, it’s worth your while to learn IPA. That’s a fact.
Who told you that you must learn ʙ, and ɢ, and ɰ̊ in order to use IPA to discuss English pronunciation?
Or did you just look up an IPA chart and decide to pluck out the most scary-looking symbols to try and make a point?
I don’t know exactly what those symbols represent (although I might guess at a couple), and I will probably never bother learning them, because they’re not relevant to discussing accents and pronunciations in English, which is discussed on this message board constantly.
This is just argument from ignorance.
And very often that level of variation isn’t relevant to the discussion. In fact, the kinds of pronunciation discussions that are on this board rarely, if ever, are so specialized as to ever touch on any of those ambiguities.
Gutteral? The gutteralness of [e] is not phonemic in American English, so unless you’re having an extremely high-level, detailed discussion about phonology, there’s no reason for you to be concerned about this.
I’m not even sure you’re just arguing from ignorance now. I half suspect you’re being insincere as well. It’s hardly believable that you made the above arguments with a straight face.
Understanding and using IPA doesn’t require a Ph.D. level of knowledge of linguistics. It doesn’t even require a bachelor’s degree level of linguistics. It’s something that anyone can learn with only a few hours of study.
But you’ve already learned it. IPA is merely a supplemental tool to language in order to highlight pronunciation. The complexity of IPA you need to learn to speak words you’re already using is not anywhere like learning language from scratch.
:)
“I want some American food, dammit! I want French Fries!” … “God-damned see-through coffee!”
Ah, so you presume everyone accesses this board from smart phones? Aren’t you the haughty linguist!
Here in Scotland a top football (soccer) club is Celtic and pronounced Sell-Tic. So much for Gaelic - pronounced here as Ga (apple) lic. Go figure.
There are a few jewelry store owners here whose commercials mention “JOO-lurry.” I make a point of patronizing their competitors.
That’s a hell of a lot of work to do, just to go onto a message board to bitch about people who say “nuke-uler”. I’m typing this on a shitty little iPhone 5 that gives me about 2” of screen to work with; just ordinary posting is a hassle, let alone opening a new window, going to one of those sites, and trying to copy-and-paste.
Now, to be fair to you, it was another poster, not you, who asked everyone to use IPA in their posts. And I will happily concede that I’d gain a useful tool if I learned the IPA. But I frankly don’t talk about pronunciation and language enough to keep up my knowledge of it; especially, as this thread shows, we’re perfectly capable of having a four-page discussion on pronunciation without needing it.
I had pretty much learned how to read and write English by the time I was seven. Were I a native speaker of, say, Japanese, I doubt that at the age of 62 (and a half, I’ll have you know), I’d be terribly inclined to task myself with it today.
I learned Braille at the age of 23, but I had both a reason and the motivation to do so. I do not have those things to spur me to learn IPA.
It annoys me when people say “ax” instead of “ask”
I mean, there’s a “k” in the word.