Work advice

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I guess I am looking for advice as much as I just want to vent a bit, and see if anyone has any insight.

Long Background:
Been with my company for a little over 4 years, and have been promoted up the Financial Analyst chain almost every year. As of August I was a Senior Financial Analyst, the go to guy in the department, the one that trained all the new people, and held the hands of the useless vets. In August our Financial planning systems person (of 15 years) finally followed through on her year long threat of “promote me, make my job more interesting, something, or I need to move on” by moving on.

Now completely screwed, the area managers and directors called me and asked me to take over, as I am on the only other person around who knows some of the systems and has the ability to learn what I need. They offered a small raise and called me a “Project Manager”. I accepted, looking to help out, and looking for something new and challenging that could get me to Manager level position - even though it meant doing this and my old job for 3 months while they found a replacement and then training that person.

Well, last week a Director in Marketing who I had worked with in the past offered me a job as a manager under him. Would be a great career move, a big promotion, and a great opportunity for my future.

I told my boss, and he has spent the last week trying to guilt me into staying here.

Apparently, our company has an HR policy that you can’t transfer jobs if you have been in a position for less than a year - a policy that I have personally seen thrown out and ignored countless times before.

The guy who offered me the job just called and told me (off the record) that in an informal conversation with my director (boss’s boss) she told him that they would be telling HR to enforce the rule to prevent my transfer, as they can’t afford to lose me here.

So, effetively, my department has purposely screwed my career opportunities, taken advantage of my willingness to help, because they don’t want to find a replacement for me or something. And I can’t even really say anything, cause I “don’t know” that they said anything to HR.

Is it time to start job hunting?

2

At first, it doesn’t seem like giving you a small raise and a job title which didn’t exist before is really giving you a new position. It seems like you are the interim systems person. But if they were searching for a replacement for you, did that mean to you that you had the higher job, or not? Would you still have had to apply with the other candidates?

3

Just how on earth do they expect to enforce that rule? They can’t make you stay where you are, they can’t dock your pay or anything, and I don’t think they could bar the other manager from hiring you if he really wants you and you’re qualified for the position. There might be some personal grudges held, but I just don’t know how on earth they could realistically enforce that. It sounds like one of those things that’s on the books just to keep people from moving around too much.

It sounds like they’ve always known this would be a temporary position for you, and it’s not your job or responsibility to find a replacement. See if the new job will wait for you for a couple weeks, or long enough for you to lay out what you’re working on in a manner that will be easy for someone else to pick up with, and tell your current boss that you’ll make yourself available for help for the next month or two while they’re in transition. If this is something you want though, don’t let their guilt trip hold you back. Talk with your would-be new boss too, let him know how excited you are about the opportunity, feed his ego a bit, tell him how great the work is that their department does, etc. Perhaps he can help smooth things over a bit too.

4

Actually, they can. If it’s a transfer within the company, HR or management can put restrictions in place to prevent people from leaving jobs in one department to take a job in a different department. They justify this by citing factors such as training costs, etc.

Now if the OP were offered a job at a different company, there’s not a thing they could do about it in most cases. An exception might be for a new employee who had been paid for relocation expenses and agreed to work for X number of months or forfeit that money.

5

Well, technically I took the vacant position created when the former systems person left. The job was posted, according to company internal job posting rules, but I was the only person they “interviewed”.

Which is essentially what the new Marketing offer is. The job was posted, the guy called me and told me to apply and I would be top of the list.

I am still essentially waiting at this point, as all this info is under the table from the Marketing guy - I have yet to here officially from HR that my application has been/will be rejected.

6

That is it exactly.

Its not usually enforced because most of the time the old supervisor won’t hold anyone back. I don’t really know what happens behind the scenes - whether HR just ignores it unless someone says something, or if they look at the candidate and call up the old department at some point to see if they have a problem with the move.

7

Just a follow up on your second part.

I have offered almost exactly that to my current boss - as I am more than willing to help out for quite some time. I think the issue is that they are worried about finding someone to do some of the things, especially those on a home grown system, and the fact that there is now approval for a long term large project to put in a new planning system, and they need someone with the long term knowledge and history to help implement it and work with consultants.

I will, however, talk to the would-be boss and have him help out - no need to feed his ego, he is a stand up guy and we are pretty close!!

8

As an HR person, this is not an uncommon policy regarding internal job changes. And it is a policy that gets violated in practice when it is in the best interest of the company (or of the manager with the most political power). HR may be sympathetic to the argument that you didn’t really move to a new job, though.

Some things that will be helpful regardless. Don’t react like this policy is the most unjust thing you’ve ever heard of. Lots of companies have it and you would come off sounding inexperienced. Think pragmatically about how you can make this work for the company by managing the transition.

Keep your cool in all conversations about this. Being a sore loser in a situation like this is unfortunately a way good employees wind up on management’s bad side.

Also, it doesn’t sound like the Marketing Manager is necessarily being a good team player. It’s not generally accepted to just call up another manager’s employee and offer him a promotion. Maybe you skipped some details, but if he is not going through normal channels, HR may be a little ticked with him and unfortunately that doesn’t help your situation. In some companies HR spends a lot of time telling Marketing Managers they can’t just do whatever.

Being very honest but wishing you good luck!

9

I understand the justification for it, but I guess I was curious to know what actual power they have to enforce it. Say the new manager went ahead and hired him, and he put in notice with his current/old boss. Aside from personal grudges, what actual repurcussions could he face? HR can’t make the new boss fire him, and they can’t make him stay at the old job if he doesn’t want to. I’ve never worked anywhere with a policy like this, so I don’t understand it, but my thoughts were more along the lines of “it’s better to ask forgiveness than permission”.

10

The power comes in when they say - no, you can’t hire him. In all large companies, HR has to approve any hire/move.

Keep in mind, my company is very very large, so it has the too many layers, too many rules, policies, politics and bureaucracy that goes along with it. There are forms to be filled out online, in person, signatures, etc.

11

The way they enforce it is to block the paperwork for the transfer. In order for the manager of department X to hire you away from department Y, there are transfer forms, payroll forms, etc. that have to be processed and approved by HR and upper management. If the forms don’t get approved, the transfer doesn’t go through.

You’re right in that they can’t make a person stay at a job he doesn’t want, but the alternative is to leave the company.

12

Please clarify something for me.
You say the “Financial planning systems person” quit.
But you were given the title “Project manager” and a small raise, and were asked to do both your job and the FPSP’s.
Are you interested in the FPSP position? Is that job higher salaried than you are currently getting? Are they currently in the process of interviewing folks for FPSP? Do they have a target hire date?

A couple more questions: How much of a lurch would your department be in if you simply quit? What else could they offer you in terms of benefits, office, promotion schedule, training, etc.

And finally, will this other guy go to bat to get you - and help you in your negotiations.

Because that is what you are currently in - a negotiation. Don’t feel you have to take whatever they offer you. And don’t waste your energy feeling hurt or pissed over the situation. Instead, you are currently in demand. Find someone with considerable experience in your company/industry you can confide in, suss out all the angles, and plan a strategy. One aspect of that strategy might involve brushing off your resume, just in case.

You are certainly within your rights in asking your current mgr to clarify your current situation. Is it open-ended? Will there be any additional payoff down the line? If you continue doing it for x-period of time, would he help you get the transfer?

Whatever you do, don’t show all your cards. You know mgmt and HR sure ain’t showing you all theirs. And let me state again, this is an opportunity for you. Don’t waste your energy on unproductive emotions. I predict you will land on your feet, and be in a much better place in 6 months - even if that place may be somewhere you cannot currently predict.

Now get off the net and get back to work, you! :smiley:

13

Yup - that can be your ace up your sleeve, if you’re willing to play it. Move me to the new position, or I quit the company altogether. I hate to see companies treat their employees like furniture - that kind of shit really gets my back up.

On preview, what **Dinsdalep/b] said. If they want to tell you you’re irreplaceable, make them put their money where their mouth is.

14

Dang it - your posts are so overwhelming that they are affecting my ability to code, Dinsdale!

15

Help! I’m being stalked! :eek:

How YOU doin, babe? :dubious:

16

To clarify, I should first mention there are “Grade levels” and titles. The titles are basically meaningless. I was a Sr. Financial Analyst, the systems person that quit was at the same grade level as me (think the tile was Sr. Database analyst). They offered me her job essentially, but changed the title to Project Mngr, but it was lateral as far as grade level. They gave me a small raise, to make it worth my while to move. Since I was still in the same basic department, I ended up doing both my old Sr. Fin Analyst job and the new job while they backfilled me, then trained the new person. So I am the ‘FPSP’ now.

As mentioned above, I agreed to this because I was willing to help, it was a change and a chance to learn new things, and a small raise doesn’t hurt. This new offer for a Manager job came as a suprise, and I do feel bad that I would be leaving after only a short time, but was hoping my current management would also recognize it as a good oppportunity for career advancement for me, and at least I would be staying within the company.

Initiallly, they would be in a bit of lurch if I left, though I have told my boss that I would not leave high and dry - but would help out for an extended time. I think what is really scaring them is this upcoming new system project, as having me stick around would make things go much smoother for them. I am obviously in demand, and that bothers me more, is that instead of making it worth my while to stay, they played a backdoor game to force me to stay without offering me anything additional.

On that note, looking at my future, I don’t think staying would be worthwhile anyway, as there is not a great deal of growth in Finance beyond my current systems roll, and I do not have interest in anything more technical. So in effect I would end up with a few years of experience that would no relate to what I think I may want to do going forward.

17

I’ve thought of doing this, and it is an option.

That would be nice, though again, I am not sure I would even want to stay even if they offered me more. I am trying to think long term. It does bother me though, anyway. I wouldn’t be as angry, if they tried that first - offered me some incentive to stay, instead that tried guilt, then moved to sabatoging (within the rules of course) me behind my back. I feel disrespected.

18

Reading back through again, I just wanted to comment on this. I don’t think the policy is unjust at all, and if there was a history of strict enforcement, that HR applied to my situation, I wouldn’t (and couldn’t) complain. It is more the way that my current department’s management approached using the rarely used rule to thwart my move that bothers me. I feel that they recognized a no-fault way of keeping me and used it without even confronting me with thier decision, so that I would be forced to stay and they could claim innocence.

Everyday I see managers and above getting promoted and recognized, 2-3 times per year, while us lower level analysts are almost supposed to not notice the hypocrisy and just be thankful to be employed with a pat on the back.

After our last employee survey, our finance VPs made a big deal out of trying to find ways to advance employees’ careers, but are held back by budgets and strict HR rules (these are the speeches we have heard many a time) and then turn around and promote managers to senior managers and again to directors 6 months later. The cries of helplessness begin to ring hollow.

19

So, you don’t like the hypocrisy, guilt, and sabotage, eh? You obviously aren’t a team player, my friend. :smiley:

20

My first reaction was “zoooom! monster.com is your friend!”

Then I thought a bit more and remembered a similar situation I was in a while back.

Anyway, I was in a very large (200+ people) project team. The project worked by “rollouts”, with the new systems being implemented in a group of factories/businesses, then in another, then in another… and the team was divided in two halves.

I was assigned to Green Team because it was going to handle the Latin American rollout (LAR). Then the calendar got reshuffled and now it was Blue Team who’d go to Latin America: all the Spanish-speakers were in Green!

When LAR started, I was in the middle of a very large data-cleansing for a Green rollout. So Blue started saying “we need her, she’s the only person from Operations who speaks Spanish!” and Green would reply “from my cold dead fingers, we need her, she’s our Texas expert and she’s in charge of data cleansing!”

Of course, I wasn’t invited to those meetings. I knew about them because I’ve got ears and my immediate boss would talk with Green’s boss with the door to her office open.

So I looked at the calendars for both rollouts and came up with a schedule that I thought would cover the needs of both teams. The calendar was made in such a way that the “need to have people on location” times for both rollouts never happened on the same week, so I thought, maybe I can zigzag between teams…

I went to my boss, told him I’d heard there was being this problem, he confirmed it, I gave him my proposal. He looked at it. Stared at it. Picked his jaw from the floor and said “damn, we never thought of that! I’ll let you know.”

Proposal accepted. Both teams happy, customers happy, yours truly a bit tired but happy :smiley: (plus anyway I’m a masochist for hard work so long as it yields results)

Is it possible to find a negotiated solution? How urgently does the “new” team need you on board? Your company needs two new people in any case; how much more difficult is it to get both in your current department than one for each? I imagine your current bosses aren’t particularly happy about “too many newbies at the same time” even if the positions weren’t critical. Don’t let them tell you you’re not supposed to row that boat: that boat happens to be your life.

And if they really need you that much in your current job, maybe this can mean better conditions - which doesn’t necessarily mean more money, it can be something like helping select the people who will work for you if you don’t already do it.