Working With Women

I agree! I have had some great male & female bosses. I’ve never been the victim of any kind of backstabbing behavior from women that I know of, and I’ve worked with mostly women until my last job. And if I don’t know, I don’t care. One of my male cow-orkers had it in for me, and I suspect even wrote a nasty hate letter to/about my other female co-worker and I to sabatoge us. But he wasn’t representative of all men. Just a poor boy with some fargin’ issues.

I can see when you’re in a situation where you’re “surrounded” by a certain sex, you might be overwhelmed and make generalizations. But that doesn’t mean you’re right. To those who say they work with a shitload of women and can’t stand it, let’s put you in a workplace with a shitload of men, and I bet you’ll find something about “all men” that you don’t like, either.

I’m confused. Has he been banned? His name still shows “Charter Member”.

I was wondering the same thing myself.

It’s due to exactly the same review process applied to any charter member. I’m almost reluctant to say so, given the cries of outrage and disbelief over a previous banning, but it does take time for enough staff to get the e-mails, review the documentation and reach agreement among at least one admin and two mods.

Have patience, the wheels have started moving.

TVeblen
Pit mod

But that doesn’t mean that generalizations don’t exist. Men and woman act differently, that’s a fact. This difference is at the heart of the conflict exhibited in this thread. Obviously opinions will vary on experience, and I see no wrong in relaying those anecdotes, either for or against the OP.

[feminist]
I should think by now it’s apparent that some men are bitches, and some women are assholes. You aren’t discussing two genders behaving differently so much as two types of…asshattery.

  • Bitch meanness: behind-your-back, gossipy, indirect, personal, holding grudges, cliquey. Commonly associated with females 10 years old and up.
  • Asshole meanness: in-your-face, direct, brief, efficient, possibly more physical, brutish, unsubtle. Commonly associated with men.

It’s abundantly clear that, if workplace confrontations have to happen, people prefer to deal with assholes rather than bitches. They just tend to entangle asshattery with gender. [/feminist]

In one of those odd coincidences, I read your line just as my AbFab Series 3 DVD fired up into the theme song: “Wheels on fire, rolling down the road…”

(crickets chirp)

Sorry, I got nothing on topic. Just sayin’.

And the vultures have started circling.

I am so grateful for my co-workers after reading this thread. I work in an office of five women (including myself) and one men, and have never, ever worked with a less catty group of women. I adore every single one of them. I can have a long talk about just about anything with all of them, including my male co-worker. There’s just a huge sense of respect in the office for one another, and I really enjoy that.

Funny thing is, the only behavior I’ve seen in the office that might fit the catty description has come from my male co-worker. It was in regards to people who left, though, so it didn’t strike me as too catty.

I’m going to take doughnuts to everyone on Monday just because I like them so much.

E.

Bon appetit.

Great call, Veb. Best. Ban. Ever. And a special thanks to Rebekkah, for starting the thread which finally pushing him over the precipice. Now if you’ll excuse me {preens feathers}, I have some feasting to do.

Well, I gotta agree with [bluethree** over on page one or so. I just have problems with folks makin’ generalizations about genders. We all individuals, ya know? Me personally, I like workin’ with ladies add fellas. I’m not really sure what folks khave to asy sabout me when I’ve been in charge o fff stuff so I canit speak on that point. I don’t laike workin’ with asshosles… The ladies I been workin’ with are nice, professional, let me know when they PMSn’ or got other beeefss and stuff, and they still get the job done. If a fella’s an asshole, then he outs hisself preety early, and I just figures out strategies to deal with him, but for the most part the fealls I work with have been gentlemen, and we communicate well and get the job done. So I guess I’ve been talkin’ all around the barn to say that folks just need to communicate more effectively.

Wel, that’s my two cents.

Yes! I love it!

“Two different types of…asshattery.”

That’s a perfect description. Thank you, EmeraldGrue!

For the record, I am female. I have worked in both male- and female- dominated situations, and I agree that asshattery transcends gender. If someone is going to be a shit they will do so in the manner that they find easiest and most effective. I’ll not bore you with examples, but I have known and loathed male and female Bitches and male and female Assholes, as well as having adored working with kind, friendly, kick-ass competent people of either sex.

So, the cardboard division finally won out, eh?

In my long and varied (read: distinctly surreal) work experience, it’s howlingly stupid, not to mention futile, to characterize good vs. bad coworkers by gender. It just doesn’t break down that way. Some generalizations about overall style, approach, etc. might apply, but even those don’t hold up under close, fair scrutiny. IME, at least.

Everybody has anecdotes.

I work among a lot of cranky, menopausal women right now. Some of 'em have worked together for donkey’s years, and they’ve settled into a literal work ‘family’, with all that implies. They can and do idly snipe and gritch at one another, purely out of habit, but they also instantly and unquestionly provide real, tangible support anyone who hits a rough spot. They remind me of dolphins who butt, whistle at and generally torment around others but also willingly carry hurt members until they can swim on their own again. The process can be maddeningly fluid but the results are real. They don’t relate wrongly, just differently.

FWIW, anecdotally, the absolute worst, hardcore goldbrickers I ever worked with have been male. They made an art and mission of playing whatever systems were available to them. That doesn’t remotely mean that the men–collectively–in my work experience have been remotely less responsible than women, just the few, stray parasites didn’t show responsibilty or conscience the same way. Though there are always those exceptions. It’s a draw–IME–when it comes to human remora.

Often my male counterparts are a breath of refreshing air, but that doesn’t make them less complicated. Mostly I relish their pure differentness–they’re a breath of fresh air–but that doesn’t make them qualitatively more trustworthy or honorable. A few of the most flagrant, conscienceless users-of-others in my work life have been women. But there have plenty of men in that category too.

Humans mess can and often do mess up under pressure, boredom, opportunity or plain cussedness. People crack along their individual fault lines. Gender, sex, whatever, has nothing to do with underlying human stress failures. As for how those failures manifest themselves…keeps life interesting, doesn’t it? IMO anyone who settles for a blanket catch-all formula flunked the test as soon as it was passed out.

Veb

Just to clarify my previous post (and in the process just maybe clarify the posts of some others along the way), I need to make it perfectly clear that I don’t think men are above being completely fucking vile in the workplace either. I’m responding to what I can handle and what I can’t.
Please don’t play the misogyny card just yet. If anything I’m pointing out a failing on my part.

I’m a woman and I love working with the women in my office. The majority of my bosses are women (line manager up through VP.) I respect and admire all of these particular women. They’ve been great bosses. A lot of my co-workers are women. I’d say it’s about 50-50 men and women in my department.

I only have problems with a couple of co-workers and they’re both men. However, previously one of the worst bosses I ever had was a woman. I can’t draw any conclusions at all from the number of women and men I’ve worked with except perhaps that I’ve been fortunate enough to work in a place where good, friendly, hardworking people are valued, and to have very few examples of people I just can’t stand working with.

I guess I’m offering my experience as a counter to many of the generalizations about how women communicate in the office - because frankly that’s just not something I’ve seen. The cattiness and backstabbing in my workplace is all coming from one particular guy and he is most definitely not supported in that behaviour by any clique. But again I don’t think that my experience is enough evidence to base a conclusion off.

I half expected a response like this, and I’m coming back in to the thread admittedly late… bad OP.

Ok, I should clarify. I’ve worked since I was 14. I’m 26 now. Every single time I’ve had a problem with a co-worked, it’s been with a woman. The latest bullshit is just the tip of my iceberg, and I’m not basing this opinion on two women only. Now - I should note that this translates over into real life and I don’t actually think all women are hell to work with. I do however hate the fact that the pit-worthy women I’ve worked with make my life such a living hell. I think at some point, I’ll elaborate on the bullshit I’m going through, but suffice it to say, my mother in her 35 years working at a hospital with mainly female coworkers has experienced the same coniving, backstabbing, gossipy bullshit I’ve gone through and her advice has been excellent:

Never say anything bad about someone at work and always make it clear that you refuse to be treated poorly.

I don’t think I’m an idiot. I just am incredibly poor at deciphering the nuances of female working relationships, but thanks for the snap judgement. :wally

Sigh.

Guess it’s time to elucidate the situation a bit further.

My boss had a meeting when I was out of the office, pulled the two women in and said that if the backtalking, bitchiness and general unpleasantness didn’t stop, he’d be looking at firings.

I have talked to both women. When I asked them directly if they had a problem, they said no - they were fine with my work and happy to work with me. Yet, I keep hearing from my boss about shit they say, and he’s trying his best to work it out. I think he could do more, but I’m so sick and tired of dealing with this shit, I just can’t be bothered to put more effort into it.

And as for talking behind their back? Yes, I’m using the pit to rant, somewhat irrationally, in a manner I would never rant in the workplace, being a professional. Am I the first to vent steam here?

Self-Examination? Definately. I really need to figure out why I can’t pick up the subtle nuances, innuendo and clues that could put out a fire before it erupts. I’ve always made it clear to my female friends that passive aggressive is lost on me, and I need to be told when I piss them off and how… I seem to be missing the “female” communication gene or something. It is definately my fault also!

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your communication; you called these women on their actions and gave them a chance to act like adults, and they refused to take it. If “female communication” means not saying what you mean and lying when people ask you direct questions, then I’m missing that gene too.

I’m not big on the subtle nuances and innuendo either. I go to work to work, I do my work, I go home. I’m not looking for a lot more out of it than that, but that apparently has pissed people off in the past in my life, too. Too bad for them, I figure. They can play all the games they want; I’m not interested, and can’t be bothered to play back.