Isco is overrated. As proved in the CL final.
Plus who exactly did Klose play with for Germany that was top drawer? He had Ballack and Kahn in 2002. He was their main striker with basically only Ballack in support in 2006. By 2010 yes, he had a better supporting cast, but come on the guy was lethal in front of goal.
Here is Germany team in 2002 WC Final. Ballack was suspended, its a big list of “what the hell”.
Yeah, Ballack was his best teammate in 2002. Ballack was out for the final, but then Klose didn’t score in the final, so meh. He did score all five in the group stage including 3 in an 8-0 win over Saudi Arabia. But yeah, that roster is weak tea. Makes the Italy screw job a bigger shame as their roster was worthy of a final. They other years he had some of combination of Ballack, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Ozil, and Muller.
Again, not saying he’s bad, just overrated. The only thing you can point to in his career that sets him apart from dozens of other forwards is the WC record, but again, pretty much no competition for that starting role. He didn’t pass Gerd Muller and Ronaldo because he’s a better player. He passed them because he played more games and a once every four year tournament is a small sample size where flukey things can happen.
Because I have nothing better to do I went through the squads of teams for the 2002-2014 WCs and picked out forwards that I think Voller or Low would have picked over Klose if they were German.
[ol]
[li]Alessandro del Piero[/li][li]Andriy Shevchenko[/li][li]Antoine Griezman[/li][li]Arjen Robben[/li][li]Carlos Tevez[/li][li]Christian Vieri[/li][li]Christiano Ronaldo[/li][li]David Trezeguet[/li][li]David Villa[/li][li]Didier Drogba[/li][li]Diego Forlan[/li][li]Diego Milito[/li][li]Edinson Cavani[/li][li]Filippo Inzaghi[/li][li]Francesco Totti[/li][li]Gabriel Batistuta[/li][li]Gonzalo Higuain[/li][li]Henrik Larsson[/li][li]Hernan Crespo[/li][li]Lionel Messi[/li][li]Luca Toni[/li][li]Luis Suarez[/li][li]Mario Balotelli[/li][li]Michael Owen[/li][li]Neymar[/li][li]Olivier Giroud[/li][li]Raul[/li][li]Robin van Persie[/li][li]Romelu Lukaku[/li][li]Ronaldo[/li][li]Ruud van Nistelrooy[/li][li]Samuel Eto’o[/li][li]Sergio Aguero[/li][li]Theirry Henry[/li][li]Thomas Muller[/li][li]Wayne Rooney[/li][li]Zlatan Ibrahimovic[/li][/ol]
I’m sure some people would quibble with a handful of them, but I don’t think it’s a terribly controversial list. So if being the 38th best forward of his era makes him top class, then he is. If it doesn’t, then he’s second tier, IMO.
To get the thread back on the 2018 track, predictions for top scorer? I’ll take Griezman.
This is a ridiculous list. Some of those players are wingers, others AMC. Kloses job required size strength and quickness being a lone striker. Many others played on talented sides and didn’t produce. He is a Jack Morris type who gave his best efforts on the biggest stage; a stage that crushes others.
And Luca Toni…lol…couldn’t even crack the starting lineup at Dortmund.
An interesting thing about Luca Toni is that he played for Bayern at the same time as Klose. Klose scored 0.24 goals/game. Toni scored 0.63.
How did Toni do for Italy playing pretty much the same lone striker role? If Klose was so mediocre how did he make 4 German squads?
All Strikers are forwards. Not all forwards are Strikers. Klose was an out and out striker, only a few of the guys mentioned in your list are. Strikers. Of the ones he played with, I think only Villa, Torres (not in your list) Etoo, Raul, V’Nistlerooy, and Ibra were better.
In the 2014 WC, Germany tried Ozil, Muller and Gotze upfront in the group stages. They turned to Klose because none of them were good as strikers and he was needed.
And the Germans had to turn to him in 2014 in desperation after Mueller, Ozil and Gotze sucked in the role?
And sure Klose had some goals against S Arabia and Ireland*. But he also scored against a very good Cameroonian side and 3 of the goals were against Argentina, 1 each against Brazil and
England.
As I’ve mentioned multiple times in this thread… because he has even worse competition for the role. As AK84 points out, they played the group stage with midfielders playing striker for them. They only had two actual forwards on their squad the other being Lukas Podolski who is entirely mediocre.
AK84, Klose is better than Suarez? Drogba? Batistuta? Higuain? Really!?
I left Torres off my list because I don’t really rate him as highly as the others. He’s good, but he’s not clearly better than Klose like the rest of the people on that list.
Suarez is not an out an out striker. he plays on the wing or as a SS quite often.
Drogba: tends to play deeper than a traditional striker, but yeah, I’ll accept him
Batistuta: Overrated, so yes
Higuian: has shit the bed too many times in big matches.
Torres’s was a hitman in front of goal, so no idea why you left him out.
Better than Brazilian Ronaldo?
I mean if you’re tossing out Suarez because he can leave the box and dribble…
Club Goals Per Game
Klose - 0.39
Batistuta - 0.53
National team Goals Per Game
Klose - 0.52
Batistuta - 0.7
World Cup goals Per Game
Klose - 0.67
Batistuta - 0.83
And Torres had club goals per game of 0.35 and national team gpg of 0.35. Decidedly not a hitman in comparison to that list. I’m pretty sure the only person on that list that scored less goals than Klose is Robben, but I’d be fine throwing him out as a winger anyway.
Regardless, the whole point is that “All Time Goal Scorer” is misleading regarding Klose’s actual talent level.
Yes, I came back to write Brazilian Ronaldo, missed him inexplicably.
Anyway, there is a chance of a Spain v Egypt R16 game.
I will be really disappointed if Ramos does not leave that match on a stretcher. After having been hit with a spinning heel kick the referee did not see.
How about Salah jukes him and he tears his achilles. On the ground he watches Salah score the winner?
Would anyone be interested in an SDMB World Cup pick em group on ESPN.com?
Yes!
The way this France team is playing against an upstart USA team, perhaps they weren’t the best pick as my Brazil back up plan. I guess I was betting on the potential for Mbappe to break through as an international superstar at this World Cup.
They did manage to apply a lot of pressure, but yes, their timing was suspect and they missed a fair number of chances. That WC group they’re in won’t knock them out, but it also doesn’t have any pushover teams.