World of Warcraft General Discussion

[Words_on_the_Interweb]

@Shot_From_Guns

Plus, as a tank, I use Outfitter, so 99% of the time I’m able to quickly mash my “Naked” outfit button and avoid taking a durability hit, and then all I’ve lost is time.

As a tank, and a gatherer, how the hell do you have room in your bags to take off your gear?

[Skammer]

Levitate FTW! Whenever I start falling from my flying mount (or fall off a cliff) it’s always a race to see if I can cast Levitate before going splat.

[Shot_From_Guns]

@Words_on_the_Interweb

As a tank, and a gatherer, how the hell do you have room in your bags to take off your gear?

I’ve never been unfortunate enough to accidentally dismount myself while on a gathering run, that’s how.

Every Ony run, I have to bite my tongue to keep from screaming, “GIVE THE FUCKING HYBRIDS FIRST DIBS ON THE GODDAMN 22-SLOT BAG!”

[Yeticus_Rex]

@Bosstone

Gemming is a new world for me, apparently. So basically, ignore the color of the slots themselves unless they happen to coincide with your needed stats, and focus on your needed stats while leaning toward the useful meta gems. That about right?

FWIW, the reason I am hitcapped in my current Ret gear is because I threw down two +16 Hit yellow gems, so I figure that’s fine to leave alone instead of swapping out for Strength. The Claymore of the Prophet has 27 more hit rating than the Whale-Stick Harpoon I’m currently carrying, so once I get that I should be able to swap out the gems without harm. (Right now I’m at 234, the Claymore will boost me to 261, losing the gems will drop me to 229. Hitcap for a Draenei is 229.53, so we’ll call it good enough for now.)

ETA: Speaking of gemming, I really need to get Jewelcrafting back up to speed. Haven’t touched it since before getting into Outland in the interests of making some damn money.

Let me provide a model ret pally that we both can aspire to. Go to http://www.wow-heroes.com/, then type choose “US” for Zone, “Cairne” for Realm, and “Haphan” for name. Haphan is the current top Ret Pally in the Cairne Realm gearwise. Take a look at the gear and the gems and enchants that he has and look at his numbers…astounding. Mostly, he’s gemming for +20 strength with a couple of Sovereign Dreadstones (to prop up his Chaotic Skyflare Diamond) and an Etched Ametrine. IMHO, I would use a Relentless Earthseige Diamond which requires only one Sovereign Dreadstone and one Etched Ametrine to activate the meta), but with all that freaking strength (plus 3 Bold Dragon Eyes!), he really can deal out the DPS. The Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting combines for a potent mix of gems and sockets…I think he’s got it down 99% correct. Along with being hit-capped, nearly expertise-capped and loads of crit, I think that makes for a true ret pally.

[Words_on_the_Interweb]

Haphan is a good example of when to use the Relentless meta and a Prismatic to activate it, so you can have all the rest of your gems be pure strength. Yeah, it’s hard to argue with his stats, but they could be even better.

[Yeticus_Rex]

Are you saying that he could just use 2 (or 3) of the Bold Dragon’s Eyes (are they still prismatic?), and that would have filled the meta requirement and he could just keep using the the Bold Cardinal Rubies instead of the Sovereign Dreadstones and Inscribed/Etched Ametrine?

[Ferret_Herder]

@Yeticus_Rex

Are you saying that he could just use 2 (or 3) of the Bold Dragon’s Eyes (are they still prismatic?), and that would have filled the meta requirement and he could just keep using the the Bold Cardinal Rubies instead of the Sovereign Dreadstones and Inscribed/Etched Ametrine?

Dragon’s Eyes are no longer prismatic, sadly.

[Mogle]

@Yeticus_Rex

Are you saying that he could just use 2 (or 3) of the Bold Dragon’s Eyes (are they still prismatic?), and that would have filled the meta requirement and he could just keep using the the Bold Cardinal Rubies instead of the Sovereign Dreadstones and Inscribed/Etched Ametrine?

I can’t speak for Words on the Interweb, but would I say he should have stuck a Nightmare Tear in helmet(since it got the best socket bonus) and Bold Cardinal Rubies/Bold Dragon’s Eyes everywhere or possibly, an Inscribed Ametrine in the helmet and a Nightmare Tear in the chest. I’m not sure about the relative value of str and crit rating for paladins though, but we’re talking about 10 crit vs 4 str here.

[Quasimodem]

@Shot_From_Guns

Classic example of why **not **to buy gold: it puts you on their target list for accounts to hack. 'Cause you bought some before you knew any better, Quasi, you’re going to have to keep an extra-careful eye out for things like this. When in doubt, check here!

I know, Hon. They keep “hounding” me to buy, and I feel sorry for them, because I know they’re in China and not really playing the game for any other reason than to feed their families (some of them, I guess), but I can’t put my account in jeopardy like that.

I’ll just get my g’s the honest way from now on.

Thanks

Q

[Quasimodem]

@Shot_From_Guns

I’ve never been unfortunate enough to accidentally dismount myself while on a gathering run, that’s how.

Every Ony run, I have to bite my tongue to keep from screaming, “GIVE THE FUCKING HYBRIDS FIRST DIBS ON THE GODDAMN 22-SLOT BAG!”

Boy, do you have a “mouth”, young lady!

But you know what?

I wouldn’t have you any other way!

Don’t know if I am imagining this correctly, but I see your toon as being able to drink any of those “tough guys” hanging around in the various inns under the table!:eek:

Have I got that right?

Plus you take such good care of me, Wolkie and Silka (and so many others in this thread), that I wish I could meet up with one of your toons, so that I could salute and bow! (I don’t think “grovel” is one of the “Emote” choices! :D:D:D)

Thanks!

Q

[Words_on_the_Interweb]

@Mogle

I can’t speak for Words on the Interweb, but would I say he should have stuck a Nightmare Tear in helmet(since it got the best socket bonus) and Bold Cardinal Rubies/Bold Dragon’s Eyes everywhere or possibly, an Inscribed Ametrine in the helmet and a Nightmare Tear in the chest. I’m not sure about the relative value of str and crit rating for paladins though, but we’re talking about 10 crit vs 4 str here.

I’d be inclined to go with exactly your first scenario of the Nightmare Tear (prismatic) in the helmet and Bold gems elsewhere. 10 crit rating is ~.21% crit chance at level 80, I couldn’t say for sure without number crunching to a level I just don’t have the brain power for right now, but I’d be inclined to stick with Bold gems for the higher overall strength bonus, since Ret attacks scale with weapon damage. Either way, there’s no reason to have 2x Sovereign gems, given the rest of his kit, and the relatively weak socket bonus on his cloak… I’d at the very least swap that for a Bold and put a Nightmare Tear in the chest, with a Relentless meta.

ETA: I don’t mean to pick the guy’s gear apart - his gear is very nice, and overall his gemming and enchanting is fairly decent (no enchant on the gloves makes me sad though). Mostly just wanted to point out the type of scenario Ret is looking for with the Relentless meta choice. Also, if you’re looking for someone to model yourself after, I wouldn’t advise you copy his spec… he has some serious flaws, in particular not having Swift Retribution maxed.

[Yeticus_Rex]

@Mogle

I can’t speak for Words on the Interweb, but would I say he should have stuck a Nightmare Tear in helmet(since it got the best socket bonus) and Bold Cardinal Rubies/Bold Dragon’s Eyes everywhere or possibly, an Inscribed Ametrine in the helmet and a Nightmare Tear in the chest. I’m not sure about the relative value of str and crit rating for paladins though, but we’re talking about 10 crit vs 4 str here.

From Elitist Jerks regarding Ret Pallies:

[SIZE=“5”]Stats[/SIZE]

(In order of importance!)
If you are looking for stat weightings I suggest you use one of the spreadsheets at the top, as they vary greatly depending on your current gear.

Hit See Observations
32.8 rating gives you 1% hit. At level 80, we require 263 hit rating, or 8%, to be hit capped on white swings, specials, and judgements. Note that Exorcism and Consecration are considered spells and use the spell hit table, thus we can still miss with these abilities. You need to be hitcapped in order to get your maximum dps. Hitcapping is extremely easy with gear alone and shouldn’t be gemmed or enchanted for.

Strength
Our DPS stat to stack after the hitcap, as we have various talents that multiply it’s effect. 1 STR gives you 2 AP baseline, multiplied by 1.15 from Divine Strength (Tier 1 Prot) giving us 2.3 AP per STR when specced. This number is further affected by buffs such as BoK. STR also increases the strength of our utility spells such as SS via talents, and the new SoV triple dips on STR. It is recommended that you gem all STR after you are hitcapped.

Expertise
Introduced in late BC, this stat allows us to completely remove dodges from the attack table - you cannot fully remove parries from the table, but you only get parried from the front, so don’t attack bosses from the front! 8.2 rating gives 1 expertise; you need 214 expertise rating (26 expertise, 6.5%) to reach the cap. If you are a human using a sword/mace you need 23 expertise (189 rating), and if you are a dwarf using a mace you need 21 expertise (173 rating) to reach the cap due to racials. Capping this stat is a significant dps increase vs uncapped (or none at all) as it affects our whites and strikes. You ideally want to cap this stat alongside hit in order to maximize your dps and this is possible in 3.1/3.2 with the amount of expertise on gear. Anything over the cap is utterly worthless and wasted itemization points. Do not gem for expertise, let it come naturally with gear or glyphs (see glyph section).

**Crit **See Observations
We are quite reliant on critical strikes to do damage. You can never really have too much crit, but it is not worth gemming for it, gem for STR instead. You need 45.9 crit rating to gain 1% crit at 80. This stat gains no benefits from raid buffs, but you get more per itemization point from crit than you do AGI. This stat also increases your spell crit rating, making it flat out superior to AGI.

Agility
We need 52.08 agility to gain 1% melee crit. Like stated before, crit is flat out better, however AGI does scale with raid buffs such as BoK where crit does not. Often found on leather, mail, or sometimes weapons, but not on plate.

Haste
Haste received some buffs in 3.1; namely for paladins we get 30% more haste from each rating point. Haste increases white damage and SoV damage by giving you a few more attacks against a boss; haste does NOT decrease the GCD on our strikes/judgements, but slightly decreases spell GCD (cons, exo). You will find plenty of it on our sets and pieces, don’t enchant or gem for it. You need 32.7 baseline haste rating to gain 1% haste at 80, but adjusted with the 3.1 changes paladins require 25.2 haste rating for 1% haste. Despite all these buffs for haste, it still isn’t a great stat for ret and should not be stacked or specifically aimed for.

Attack Power
Most of our skills scale off AP, but this stat is bottom of the melee barrel (about tied with ArP) - STR is just so much better. AP isn’t really seen on plate (so you often don’t have to worry about this) but you will run into it if you dip into leather and mail. Note that despite AP having a 2:1 item stat budget, it is still far weaker than STR as we have no talents that boost it’s effect. When comparing or considering pieces with AP vs plate, you need to look at the item stats/level as a whole.

Armor Penetration
ArP only affects about 35% of our damage, making it our least desired stat. 13.8 rating now gives you 1% armor piercing; unlike BC, you can no longer fully ignore boss or player armor via this stat. ArPen does NOT increase damage done by seals or judgements, just white damage, CS and DS.

Spellpower
Bad item stat for us. Spellpower increases some of our skills’ coefficients, but at a rate much slower than STR/AP, and does nothing for our white damage and instant melee strikes - CS and DS gain nothing from spellpower. Avoid this stat (easy to do, since none of our ret gear has spellpower).

Intellect
As of 3.1, INT sucks due to JotW/SA changes. 1 INT gives you 15 mana and a negligible amount of spell crit; you need 166 INT to gain 1% spellcrit. INT will increase the mana you get from DP, and your total mana pool, nothing else. You will only find int on hunter/enh shaman gear and it is rare to find a piece of mail better than plate/leather. INT is not a ret stat.

Stamina, Armor
Ultimately, stam does nothing more than keep you alive in situations where there is raid damage, and in wrath there is a lot of raid damage. Most of the damage is magic (not mitigated by armor) therefor armor class does not matter to us, as we have no Armored to the Teeth talents like warriors or deathknights. You’ll find all the stam you need and much much more on all wrath gear.

I bolded the top four stats for Ret Pallies and the 4 statements that strongly point towards gemming for Strength only. Could be a coin flipper, but I would rather err on the side of Strength.

[Yeticus_Rex]

And from the same site:

Recommended Gems

Sometimes you will have to ignore socket bonuses because they are terrible! This is more a guide for when you want to meet such requirements. We finally have epic gems available, and so rare cuts have been removed from the lists. Due to JC changes (removal of the prismatic portion of the dragon’s eyes) all paladins are equalized in gemming options.

Metas:

[Relentless Earthsiege Diamond]
This is the preferred meta, simply because of fairly easy gem requirements. You do lose between .5 and 1 DPS between this and the CSD but you gain more DPS by not using 2 blue gems. Do not use [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] because 2 blue gems suck.

Prismatic:
You will be using one (and only one) of these to fulfill your meta requirement. Use it in a blue slot, preferably one with a good socket bonus (like str).
[Nightmare Tear]

Red slots:
You will be gemming pure STR in everything, until you have 2T9 (and even after that in most cases)
[Bold Cardinal Ruby]

Yellow slots:
If a yellow socket has a 4 STR bonus or better, you can safely gem with one of these (usually inscribed) for a net dps gain due to 2T9.
[Etched Ametrine]
[Inscribed Ametrine]

Blue slots:
Gemming for blue sockets is always a dps loss until we have 10 str socket bonuses (aka, not in this xpac). You should use the prismatic tear above. You do find the following gem used in pvp gear, though.
[Sovereign Dreadstone]

[Yeticus_Rex]

@Words_on_the_Interweb

ETA: I don’t mean to pick the guy’s gear apart - his gear is very nice, and overall his gemming and enchanting is fairly decent (no enchant on the gloves makes me sad though). Mostly just wanted to point out the type of scenario Ret is looking for with the Relentless meta choice. Also, if you’re looking for someone to model yourself after, I wouldn’t advise you copy his spec… he has some serious flaws, in particular not having Swift Retribution maxed.

Our best ret pally in our Realm still has “serious flaws”!
Now I feel like my ret pally is a recovering alcoholic with a crack addiction!

You are right though; there are probably better models of ret pallies on other realms. Maybe I (or anyone else) can find the best geared ret pally in the whole game, just to see what his/her stats are.

[Mister_Rik]

Hallow’s End:

I’ve gotten just about all the [Penny Pouch]es I need, thank you :mad:

Where on Azeroth do you get the Tricky Treats for the “Out With It” achievement? I haven’t seen a one.

I wish the costumes obtained from getting “Tricked” by an innkeeper counted for the wand achievement. It’s kind of a pain in the ass to run around finding people to party with just to hit each other with wands.

Other things:

I’m really, really enjoying and getting into playing my draenei mage. She’s level 33 now, so she can wear the Robe of Power she made for herself. It sure looks nice, and I like the stats. I had a lot of fun doing the quest out of Forest Song in Ashenvale where you have to kill a bunch of demons. The challenge was learning how to kill each kind of demon. Svelexi is a fire mage, and I really had to improvise the first time I tried to kill one of those Infernals — Oh crap, immune to fire! Oh damn … um, Frostbolt/unload with Arcane Missiles/Frost Nova/back up/Cone of Cold/Arcane Explosion or wand a couple times. The Felguards weren’t immune to fire, but seemed to have some resistance, so I’d open with Pyroblast and then use Arcane Missiles and Arcane Explosion to finish them off. The Mannoroc Lashers melt like butter under fire damage, so with them it was pretty much just Pyroblast+Fireball, and they’d orgasm and die

I’ve got so damn many alts, and I hardly play most of them unless I just feel like a change of pace from paladins. But every now and then I’ll be playing one and everything just seems to come together and that alt becomes a whole lot of fun. Happened with my draenei warrior, and now my draenei mage.

Druids: Have druids always gotten Travel Form earlier than everybody else gets their first mount? My nelf druid just hit level 16, and the trainer taught him Travel Form. I wasn’t expecting that until lvl 20. Of course, naturally, this came after I’d just spent 30+ minutes running from Auberdine to Darnassus to Dolanaar, back to Darnassus, back to Auberdine, boating to Azuremyst, visiting Exodar, running to Azure Watch, and finally running all the way to Blood Watch to hit the candy buckets. “Discovering” Blood Watch gave me that last bit of XP I needed to bump me to lvl 16. Now I get Travel Form :smack:

Also, why does logging out take so damned long?

[Yeticus_Rex]

@Yeticus_Rex

You are right though; there are probably better models of ret pallies on other realms. Maybe I (or anyone else) can find the best geared ret pally in the whole game, just to see what his/her stats are.

Just looking under the “A” realms, I found quite a few top Ret Pallies with a mix of Bold Cardinal Rubies and Inscribed Ametrines (when the socket bonus is +4 STR or better) that in turn gives them 5000+ power and 40%+ Crit while the Strength is near 2000. But they are toting some serious high level gear.

Example: US, Alterac Mountains, Holybeatrix

[jayjay]

Tricky Treats apparently drop when you kill the Horseman.

[Telperien]

@Mister_Rik

Hallow’s End:

I’ve gotten just about all the [Penny Pouch]es I need, thank you :mad:

Where on Azeroth do you get the Tricky Treats for the “Out With It” achievement? I haven’t seen a one.

You get the Tricky Treats from the Headless Horseman during the daily quest fight with him. They drop as loot from him. For fun, eat them standing by his corpse, and when you throw up, it will look like you barfed on him.

Our guild has been arranging little meetups to zap each other with wands. It’s the best way we have found to get the achievement.

Speaking of which, my main is now Kindi the Hallowed, after going to Wintergrasp (my first time ever! I’m definitely going back, it was great fun) and getting her kills.

[Quasimodem]

… no higher levels will acknowledge a bow/salute any more!!!

When I get on the boat at the harbor and I see a higher level player than me?

I always turn Wolkie and Silka, and we both bow and salute.

No acknowledgement at all.

No wave, no nothing.

Q

[Words_on_the_Interweb]

@Yeticus_Rex

Our best ret pally in our Realm still has “serious flaws”!
Now I feel like my ret pally is a recovering alcoholic with a crack addiction!

You are right though; there are probably better models of ret pallies on other realms. Maybe I (or anyone else) can find the best geared ret pally in the whole game, just to see what his/her stats are.

Just remember gear != skill. Fayz is probably one of the best geared/spec’d Ret Pallies you’ll find; he’s in the top-ranked guild worldwide, according to WoWProgress.