World of Warcraft General Discussion

[Blaster_Master]

@willthekittensurvive

Thank you Blaster Master,
now to see if I can use the exploit before the new patch

anyone have some tips how my tallent build should look?

Richelieu

I’m healing mostly 5 man heroic dungeons at the moment, but I want to do more raids, 10 and 25 ones

And in the next patch I can have two tallent builds …so if anyone has a nice shadow build for me

Hurray, Priest talent build questions! If you’re going to go Holy, there’s the cookie cutter build, and I stick pretty close to it for most situations, so here’s some quick thoughts on your build now, so you understand why I’d recommend the changes I do:

Inspiration: This is awesome, especially if you’re ever MT healing and with the crit that you can achieve in a raid (easily 25-30% in current gear for Holy) you can have a good uptime. Always go 3/3 here for PVE.

Holy Reach: I don’t bother with this since Holy Nova is garbage, Prayer of Healing has a massive range already, and CoH is raid wide so it always always hits all the targets.

Searing Light: DPS talent, nice for soloing but useless for healing. Drop it.

Healing Prayers: Prayer of Mending is already cheap, and I don’t use Prayer of Healing much in raids at this point except for Loatheb. I expect I’ll grab this talent post 3.1 when Prayer of Healing is targetable on other parties and, thus, I’ll be using it more, but for now I dont’ think it’s worth much so I’d drop it.

Silent Resolve: Threat is just plain a non-issue. It’s a long discussion, but suffice to say that you’ll never pull threat off a tank, and situations where you will pull threat, if it didn’t go to you, it would go to another healer and you at least have PWS and Fade. In fact, I actually like having this threat because when healers will pull threat, it’s nice for the tanks to know where it’s going to go, and 9 times out of 10, it comes to me. Drop this talent.

Improved Power Word: Fortitude: Since silent Resolve is useless, and this equals around 600 more health for everyone in your party, it’s worth grabbing. You can skip it for raiding if you’ll let another Priest buff it for you, but still not much purpose since I think Silent Resolve is bad.

Meditation: This is a MUST talent. It is worth an enormous amount of mana. Basically, every build, even Shadow, generally goes down at least 13 points into Discipline because Meditation is THAT awesome. Mana may not be a huge issue right now, but this is one of the reasons why, and it’s one of the talents that makes Spirit one of the best stats for Priest. Always go 3/3 here no matter what build you do for any situation.

Inner Focus: I love this talent, especially in light of the OOFSR discussion. It’s a great way to cheat it, and it’s also a good way to vastly increase your crit chance if you need to proc something. With +25% crit, and this ability, I can get a 50% crit rate on an ability, and using it on something like Circle of Healing, Prayer of Healing, or even Binding Heal is about as close to guaranteeing a crit proc as you can get.

Anyway, here’s the build I recommend for Holy: Dragonflight Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

As for a Shadow build, you’re probably better off waiting because all the trees are changing considerably with 3.1. I can give you what I’d spec for Shadow if the trees remain unchanged from PTR to live, but that’s a low probability. But, FWIW, here’s a Shadow build for current 3.09, just for S&G:

Dragonflight Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

[Blaster_Master]

@Jas09

QFT. Rik, you really need to pick up Feign Death and learn how to use it (if you haven’t already). I only recently started getting the hang of it and it’s a massive advantage.

Accidentally pull aggro from your pet? Feign Death. Had a bad pull and 6 mobs are running at you instead of 1 or 2? Feign Death. Trying to solo a same-or-higher-level elite and your pet just died? Feign Death. Running a dungeon and accidentally pull some mobs of the tank? Feign Death. In fact, casting Mend Pet followed immediately by Feign Death when the mobs switch onto you is a good way to keep your pet up for tough battles without drawing the mobs off of them.

Really the only downside is the long CD (30 sec - reduced to 25 with a minor glyph - the best hunter minor glyph in the game as far as I can tell).

Downside? It has no downsides; it’s the single best aggro management tool that any class gets by a mile! You get a full threat wipe every 30s, I get a temporary one every 30s but get it all right back after 10s, and some classes have nothing (eg, Shamans). And no, I’m not jealous.*
*Okay, maybe I am.

[aktep]

@martu

Thanks, here I am:

Sagan

Here is the Prot:

Zwingli

Sagan is specced into Conviction which is giving a straight +5 to the crit chance. Sagan also has more agility adding almost another 1%. The remainder is probably a difference in weapon skills, and two-handed weapons usually have more base crit than one-handed (at least dual-wield 1 handed, I don’t know exactly how it works with a shield) because of the way the hit tables work.

[wonderlust]

Feign Death is also great in battlegrounds to get enemy hunter pets off of you. FDFTWOMGBBQ!11

[aktep]

@Blaster_Master

Downside? It has no downsides; it’s the single best aggro management tool that any class gets by a mile! You get a full threat wipe every 30s, I get a temporary one every 30s but get it all right back after 10s, and some classes have nothing (eg, Shamans). And no, I’m not jealous.*

The downside is that it’s nearly useless in PvP. It will drop aggro from a pet and break target lock from a player but those are easily recovered. It’s useless against AoE. Bubble, Ice Block, or Vanish are all better in PvP.

[martu]

@Bosstone

Sagan has a 14.83% crit chance and Zwingli has a 6.89% crit chance. Those numbers are reversed from what you originally said.

Erm yes indeed. I am an idiot. Earlier on I was comparing the two of us in different windows and must have got confused. Teach me to try and do this (with small non maximised windows) on the sly at work…

Sorry.

[martu]

@aktep

Sagan is specced into Conviction which is giving a straight +5 to the crit chance. Sagan also has more agility adding almost another 1%. The remainder is probably a difference in weapon skills, and two-handed weapons usually have more base crit than one-handed (at least dual-wield 1 handed, I don’t know exactly how it works with a shield) because of the way the hit tables work.

Thanks. Though I got us mixed up it is useful to have a full explanation of what is making the difference. I am looking up the hit tables now (even though I spend most of my working week looking at and writing Excel spreadsheets how has Blizzard made me do this and pay for the privilege??), this game is fantastically geeky.

[Mister_Rik]

@martu

Question for Retribution Paladins - did anyone pick up the Divine Strength talent? I am only level 31 at the moment and working my way to Vengeance after that it seems to me Divine Strength is the way to go. Any downsides?

I’m using this talent build, which as you can see has 5 points in Divine Strength.

@martu

Sorry I meant to add this question too - how do I increase my Crit Chance? Currently ~7% whereas the Protection pally I play with is ~15%.

There are several talents in the Retribution tree that increase the crit chance of different attacks. Heart of the Crusader, Conviction, Sanctified Seals …

[Pleonast]

@Blaster_Master

Downside? It has no downsides; it’s the single best aggro management tool that any class gets by a mile! You get a full threat wipe every 30s, I get a temporary one every 30s but get it all right back after 10s, and some classes have nothing (eg, Shamans). And no, I’m not jealous.

Shamans got a small threat management spell: Wind Shock in a recent patch. But I’ve found that when I steal aggro*, I either have to just stop attacking that mob and hope the tank recovers aggro, or I have to hope to kill it before it kills me.

*For example, let’s say in use an Earth Shock and then a Stormstrike (attacks with both weapons at the same time) on the next global cooldown. Extreme case scenario, the shock crits, stormstrike has two crits, and then the Windfury on my main hand procs for two more hits and they both crit. That’s 5 crits in 1.5 seconds, and only the base physical damage has reduced threat (which will fortunately change in 3.1). With group buffs, my crit is about 25% melees, 20% spell, with any spell crit I get giving me another 9% melee crit. If I do my math right, I have about a 1/1700 chance of getting 5 crits in a row every 8 seconds and about 1/170 of getting 4 crits with 1.5 seconds.

While a good tank’s threat will easily beat mine over the long run, at the beginning of a fight, I have to be careful. That’s why I tend to start out group fights by dropping my totems, to give more time for the tank to build aggro.

[Pleonast]

Actually, I just realized I forgot to include my regular auto-attacks (since a Shaman’s instant spells do not reset the swing timers). If both of those happen to fall inside that 1.5 seconds, I could have another two crits, for up to 7 crits within 1.5 seconds.

[Blaster_Master]

@aktep

The downside is that it’s nearly useless in PvP. It will drop aggro from a pet and break target lock from a player but those are easily recovered. It’s useless against AoE. Bubble, Ice Block, or Vanish are all better in PvP.

Oh yeah? Well, my Fade doesn’t even do that much!

On the plus side, Mass Dispel plus Pally Bubble or Ice Block is awesome.

[willthekittensurvive]

@Blaster_Master

Hurray, Priest talent build questions!

Anyway, here’s the build I recommend for Holy

yoinks

follow up questions

do you use healbot?
and how does your action bar looklike?

[Blaster_Master]

@Pleonast

While a good tank’s threat will easily beat mine over the long run, at the beginning of a fight, I have to be careful. That’s why I tend to start out group fights by dropping my totems, to give more time for the tank to build aggro.

There’s always possibilities for strange things to happen with threat, so I agree with that. Unless you’re facing an enrage timer that is right at the edge of your ability–of course, your tanks are probably just as good then too–it’s always good to leave a buffer because he may miss if he’s not hit-capped, or he may not crit and you may crit a lot, or his threat may be low because he’s focusing more on positioning. As a healer, little irritates me more that watching people start AOE right after a tank first hits a mob, and pulls mobs off expecting the healers will keep them alive until the tank taunts them off.

[Blaster_Master]

@willthekittensurvive

yoinks

follow up questions

do you use healbot?
and how does your action bar looklike?

Yes, I love healbot. Some people, even in my guild, think of it as cheating, but I really don’t see how more information, and what essentially equates to mouse-click hotkeys that I could achieve with standard raid frames and some simple macros (though sloppier). I still keep my raid frames up and have all of my heals on my actions bars though, just in case it bugs, which has happened a few times and if I didn’t have that, I’d be useless.

As for my action bar, I’m not quite sure what you’re looking for. I generally don’t use my action bars a lot since I have almost every spell I’d cast in a raid, except for group buffs and damage spells, mapped to a healbot, so I only use those hotkeys if healbot breaks.

[willthekittensurvive]

@Blaster_Master

Yes, I love healbot. Some people, even in my guild, think of it as cheating, but I really don’t see how more information, and what essentially equates to mouse-click hotkeys that I could achieve with standard raid frames and some simple macros (though sloppier). I still keep my raid frames up and have all of my heals on my actions bars though, just in case it bugs, which has happened a few times and if I didn’t have that, I’d be useless.

As for my action bar, I’m not quite sure what you’re looking for. I generally don’t use my action bars a lot since I have almost every spell I’d cast in a raid, except for group buffs and damage spells, mapped to a healbot, so I only use those hotkeys if healbot breaks.

okay…how have you got healbot configured?
especially spells like guardian spirit and inner focus?
been practicing with the mana trick , my tank asked why I was jumping all the time…but I had a full mana bar all though Violet Hold (heroic)

[Blaster_Master]

@willthekittensurvive

okay…how have you got healbot configured?
especially spells like guardian spirit and inner focus?

It’s actually pretty complicated, but I’ll try to go over it without making the post too long, but I basically treat each modifier as a class of spells, so no modifier are my base spells, shift are modified heals, alt are buffs/cleanses, and ctrl is mostly for whatever is left, so going from Mousekey 1-5, here’s how I have it set up:

No modifier: Greater Heal, Flash Heal, Renew, Prayer of Mending, Power Word: Shield

The idea is that I have all of the basic situations covered of a big heal, a small heal, a heal over time, an aoe heal, and a shield. These are also spells that I have available regardless of what spec I have.

Shift: Penance, Binding Heal, Guardian Spirit, Circle of Healing, Pain Suppression

Intuitively, all of these spells are similar to the base spells, and though I don’t have them all in my current spec (notably the Penance and Pain Suppression), I leave them there so I don’t overwrite my muscle memory, but Penance is like an improved big heal, Binding Heal is a Flash Heal that also heals me, Guardian Spirit isn’t a HOT but it is a short duration buff so the most similar of this set of spells, Circle of Healing is another AOE heal, and Pain Suppression is intuitively like a shield.

Alt: Dispel Magic, Abolish Disease, Fear Ward, Power Word: Fortitude, Divine Spirit

Basically, the important part is that since the earlier buttons are easier to reach, I have the ones I’m most likely to need more in those positions.

Ctrl: Target, Focus, Power Infusion, Prayer of Healing, Shadow Prot

I barely use the Target and Focus macros, but they’re something I always intend myself to try to get into the habit of using. Power Infusion is another short duration buff, Prayer of Healing doesn’t have another home to stay on the AOE key, and Power Infusion is there, and Shadow Prot, for lack of a home and because I seldom cast it in battle.
Obviously, those settings make sense to me and I’m use to it, but for a lot of people that’s just too many things to have mapped and be able to use effectively, or some mouse keys may be easier for you, or a different conceptual way of organizing it may make more sense to you. The important part is to make sure you have all the spells you use most easily accessible and in a way where you won’t forget to use it. I would have to say though that when I made the modifier key for Binding Heal on Flash Heal, it made a noticeable difference in my survivability because all I have to do is hold down Shift if I took damage and I’ll automatically heal myself.

I have a bunch of other configurations, like coloring to show different buffs and debuffs and different skins for different group sizes, but I think most of that is a matter of personal preference and how it fits into your UI, plus I can’t remember all the random settings for that off the top of my head.
I don’t have Inner Focus in Healbot for a couple reasons. First, it’s a self-only buff, so I’d basically just be making a hot key on my mouse instead of on the keyboard. Second, I almost always have plenty of time to use it, so I haven’t even bothered to hot key it. Instead, I just click it and have it near macros for my trinket slots so I can easily click my trinket (and use a macro so it automatically changes the use, graphic, and tooltip to show what I have equiped), and it’s also near my Hymn of Hope incase I need to go all out regen so I can go OOFSR with Inner Focus, with my Spirit trinket, and channel Hymn of Hope at the same time for some hardcore regen (which is what I often do between phases 1 and 2 on Malygos).

I don’t have Divine Hymn or Holy Nova on healbot for the same reason I don’t have Inner Focus, because they’re self-target only. I have Prayer of Healing there though, originally just because I had space and wanted it hot keyed on my mouse, and second because the upcoming change will make it a targetted spell so I’ll definitely need it.

been practicing with the mana trick , my tank asked why I was jumping all the time…but I had a full mana bar all though Violet Hold (heroic)

I would advise against using spacebar to cancel casts. I admit I still do that or move from time to time, but best practice really is to use a stopcasting macro (all you need in it is “/stopcasting” without the quotes). When you jump you cannot begin casting again until after you land which, in a high HPS situation (like multi-drake Sartharion) could mean lost healing and possibly a wipe. Same with moving, it takes a split second for you to completely stop. Of course, in most situations you’ll run into, it won’t make that much of a difference, but that split second still adds up over a fight and could mean several lost GCDs.

Another thing if you’re tryin the pre-casting trick, look into getting an improved casting bar like quartz or a unit frame add-on that has improved casting bar (I use xperl and the built in cast bar there, but quartz does have more options). These take into account your current lag and show your buffer for cancelled as well as when you can start casting a new spell. If you try to cancel a cast, but the current cast time plus your lag is greater than the total cast time, you won’t be able to cancel it. At the same time, you can use it to improve your heal spamming because if your current cast time plus lag is greater than the total cast time you can actually start a cast for the next spell. IOW, it’s a wonderful tool for mitigating the effect that lag can have on your healing throughput

[Mister_Rik]

I have a question about guilds: do they need to have a minimum number of members or something? I know about the guild charter thing and needing to obtain X number of signatures, but once the signatures are obtained and the guild is approved, does it then need to build up membership to a certain level within a certain amount of time?

I ask because two of my alts — my draenei shaman and my nelf druid — recently joined newly-formed guilds. A few weeks ago the druid was asked to sign a guild charter, and in a moment of confusion (thinking I was being invited to join a guild) I responded, “No thanks, I don’t play this toon much.” The person said, “That’s okay, I just need signatures,” so I went ahead and signed and the next time I logged on that toon I discovered I was a member of the new guild. My shaman was directly invited to join a newly-formed guild by somebody who said, “Please? We really need members!”, so I went ahead and joined that guild.

Long story short, I logged in each of these characters in the last couple days only to discover their tabards had turned gray and gone blank and the Guild tab in the “Social” panel is grayed out. I have no idea what happened, if the guilds simply dissolved, or if I was booted from them for not being active enough. I doubt the latter, since I warned the first guild guy that I didn’t play the druid often, and the shaman was only in her guild for a matter of days and the guild master seemed desperate for members.

I don’t even know a way to ask around, because these guild memberships were so short-lived that I don’t recall even the names of the guilds, let alone the names of the characters that invited me.

[Pleonast]

A guild only needs one character to remain alive. Most likely you were kicked because the guild leader wanted to form a small guild, and so were removed because they didn’t want you permanently. That’s what they meant by “just need your signature”. A lot of times they’ll even tip you a few gold for your trouble.

[Ferret_Herder]

@Blaster_Master

Yes, I love healbot. Some people, even in my guild, think of it as cheating, but I really don’t see how more information, and what essentially equates to mouse-click hotkeys that I could achieve with standard raid frames and some simple macros (though sloppier). I still keep my raid frames up and have all of my heals on my actions bars though, just in case it bugs, which has happened a few times and if I didn’t have that, I’d be useless.

I switched from Healbot, I’m using Grid and Clique now. I activated Clique for the Grid frame only and set up so when I’m mousing over a character:

• left click is Renew, middle button is Guardian Spirit, right click is Greater Heal
• Shift-Left is Flash Heal, Shift-Right is Power Word: Shield
• Alt-Left is Prayer of Mending, Alt-Right is Prayer of Healing
• Ctrl-Left is Dispel Magic, Ctrl-Right is Abolish Disease

Here’s my UI - it’s not too different from baseline.

On the left side is Grid. It lays down more squares, color-coded by class, as more join a party/raid. When I mouse over one of those squares, Clique can heal depending on how I click. Edit: I forgot to note what special events show up on the Grid squares; I’ll post on that tomorrow. The teeny boxes next to my character portrait are from Outfitter, which allows for gear set switches easily.

In the middle - the first box (with the red bar) is Recount, which tracks DPS, damage done, healing done, deaths, and a bunch of other stuff. It will also track what % of your damage comes from what attack type, and so on. The golden box is Omen; I prefer it to the in-game aggro tracker.

On the right side, CT Mod has a buff box showing icons and times remaining. Underneath that is quest tracking from Quest Helper.

Stuff that isn’t active includes Event Alert (which pops up a big icon of whatever spell/talent proc, etc., in the middle of the screen and dings loudly), DoTimer (shows a list of DoTs cast by me, per target, and their time remaining), and a few others.

[Mister_Rik]

@Pleonast

A guild only needs one character to remain alive. Most likely you were kicked because the guild leader wanted to form a small guild, and so were removed because they didn’t want you permanently. That’s what they meant by “just need your signature”. A lot of times they’ll even tip you a few gold for your trouble.

Well that’s what makes it odd. Does signing the charter automatically put you in the guild? I (my druid toon) didn’t expect to join the guild when I signed the charter.

The shaman is the puzzle. That character was specifically asked to join an existing, but small, guild, not just to sign the charter, and I had logged her in a few times afterward. Then suddenly she’s not in the guild.