World War II Question: Why the low level of coordination between Axis powers?

Factual Questions
1

Why is the level of cooperation between Axis powers (Germany, Japan, and Italy) not as extensive as those of the Allies? For example, Hitler did not consult other Axis powers before invading Poland. Japan did not give prior notification on the attack in Pearl Harbor. Japan could have helped Hitler in defeating Russia but did not so.

In contrast, Russia, Great Britain and the United States have full diplomatic, military and industrial cooperation.

It seems that the Axis could have won the war had they coordinated their actions.

2

Well, one reason is that they really didn’t like each other that much. Count Ciano, Mussolini’s son-in-law and Italy’s foreign minister, didn’t like Germans and couldn’t stand Hitler or von Ribbentrop. (Count Ciano would later be executed by the Gestapo).

To take one instance you gave above, when Hitler invaded Poland, Japan didn’t really care much one way or the other, and Italy was upset because they didn’t want to go to war.

3

I’d say different goals and distance. Japan wasn’t really as interested in conquering Russia as Hitler. They both had their own agendas (leaving out the Italians, cause I don’t know much about them) and it seems like the Axis was more a loose confederacy than an alliance like the Allies.

4

Another reason is that all of the Axis powers sucked at strategic planning and organization. How can countries define a joint strategy when they can’t even develop a coherent national strategy on their own?

Japan was strategically scizophrenic. Strategy was divided between the Army (who favored a China-only strategy) and the Navy (who favored a Pacific, US and UK only strategy). In the end they compromised by agreeing to each pursuing its own strategy.

Germany, while it had a traditional of excellent operational planning, had a dismal history of strategic planning. Hitler progressively weakened and confused whatever skill his government and military had by balkanizing military planning and economic organization among a variety of bureaucracies and institutions.

After the war started, Mussolini had so little diplomatic and military clout that he stood no chance deflecting Hitler from whatever course he choose to pursue.

Still, it’s hard to argue that the Axis could have made things turn out much better for themselves.

A coordinated German/Japanese attack on the USSR would not necessarily succeeded. The USSR did keep significant forces in the Far East against this and the poor Japanese showing at Khalkin Gol convinced all but the hardest line IJA officers that taking on the USSR was a bad idea.

Some have argued that a coordinated push by German through the Caucus and Japan through Burma and India in 1942-1943 could have isolated the USSR from all British and US help. This seems improbable to me. It would have left both Germany and Japan with extremely long open flanks subject to attack, not to mention sustaining an offensive through mountains, jungle and other inhospitable terrain.

The two areas where a common Axis strategy could have made a big difference are the Mediterranean and a joint submarine campaign.

Andrew Warinner

5

Smee bets that if

  1. the ruskies were joined up with the Axis.
  2. the Mericans were never attacked
  3. hitler would have invaded Britan, instead of thinking the English would roll over if bombed into submission,

The world would be much different now.
Communication??? The Axis couldn’t communitcate amongst themselves, (hitler paranoid nut) Lest amongst the goverments.

6

Another reason would be their political philosophies. When you’re the Master Race[sup]TM[/sup], would you take any advice from somebody you consider inferior ? :wink:

7

I think it’s best simply put as the Allies had a common goal - defeat the Axis. They had individual goals as well, as were demonstrated in the post war period. But they were able to unite in a common effort and coordinated campaigns made sense, as did sharing of resources.

The Axis powers all had their own agendas, and really didn’t care about each other all that much, except as impediments to their common enemies (which is a much more passive view of an ally than the Allies had).

8

Remember that Mussolini was interested in making HIMSELF look good. He originally opposed Hitler in Austria and sent troops to stop him.

Hitler looked up to him before he realized how little Mussolini was worth. Also Mussolini never deposed of the King so he, in theory, wasn’t in total control.

Japan’s strategy seemed to be pick up what was left and hope that the Allies would be so tired they would let them keep what they had.

Japan didn’t invade any European possessions till after Hitler conquered France and the Netherlands.

Furthermore Italy was weak. Spain, who Hitler wanted to join him, was also weak. Franco knew this and made demands so outrageous that Hitler could never accept them. Later Hitler was glad he didn’t. Hitler referred to the Spanish as the only “Tough” Latins.

The other Axis States were just as confused. Finland was only allied with Germany to get rid of the Soviets. Hitler wanted Finnish troops to go to Leningrad. They refused to go outside what they had lost in the first Russo-Finnish war. The US never declared war on Finland and Britian did only after the Finnish refused to disarm the Germans as the peace accord said. They pretended to, but let them get away into Norway.

Bulgaria NEVER declared war on Russia and refused to provide troops for the Russian offensive. (claiming they were needed to prevent Greece and Turkey from attacking)

Romania was beaten up. Hungary and Bulgaria took land with large Bulgarians (south dubruja [sp?] which it was allowed to keep on ethnic grounds after the war’s end) and Hungarians (Translyvania-which also had a good number of Germans) So Romania had only went to war with Russia to replace those lands lost with Russian lands (other than the Banat and Bessarabia)

But Spanish troops fought with the Germans against the Russians.

The goals of the Axis were more widespread. To sum up

Italy…To join whatever side could give them the most. (remember Italy didn’t even enter the war till the fall of France was certain.)

Japan…To let the Allies and Germany exhaust each other. Thus keeping what they took

Germany…To knock France out and then conquer Russia for living space. Hitler believed the British were AKIN to Germans ethnically so were better than the French. He was thought the British would quit. As a matter of fact most newspaper editorials I have read from the few days after France fell said the same thing, not realizing the atrocities by Hitler.

Interesting note. The French and British were all prepared to send Aid to Finland across Norway and Sweden. But Finland surrendered first. The may have made an enemy of the Soviets. Remember it appeared, due to the Soviet/German “non-aggression pact”, and the division of Poland, that these two counties were allied.

9

Also, you have to remember, coordination between the Allies wasn’t all that great. At the first combined briefing between the French army and the BEF, for example, General Gamelin, who was leading the briefing conducted it in French, with no translator, he spoke really fast, and he mumbled. :slight_smile:

There wasn’t really very much coordination between the French and English until the Fall of France, and then England was alone until Hitler invaded Russia, and even after Russia came into the war, Britain and the Soviets didn’t cooperate very well.

What the Allies did have, though, is a personal relationship between Roosevelt and Churchill. The two of them got along tremendously well, which led to more Anglo-American cooperation than there otherwise would be.

10

World War II can be seen as two seperate wars that happened to occur at the same time. Germany, Italy and their allies and puppets in Europe had entirely different goals than Japan. The start of World War II is normally dated as September 1, 1939 when Germany invaded Poland. Japan attacked the US, the Commonwealth, and the Dutch in the Pacific on December 7th, 1941, but their reason for doing so was to secure oil and other resources so that they could continue their war in China that had been going on since 1937.

11

Another factor is the physical difficulty of coordination between the Axis powers. Germany, Italy, and the other European Axis powers were able to coordinate their military activities and did so. But the frontlines of Japan and Europe were seperated by thousands of miles of Allied controlled territory.

12

The most important strategic decision of the Alliesat the beginning of the war after Pearl Harbor was the “Europe First” policy advocated by Winston Churchill. He believes that the defeat of Germany will ensure the defeat of Japan, but the defeat of Japan will not necessarily result in the defeat of Germany.

However, the Axis did not have such plan (take Russia first, then the British, then isolate the American).

The Axis opened too many fronts at the same time.

Germany attacked Russia without first defeating the British and declared war with America even though its not required since their pact with Japan is not for aggressive war.

Japan could have bypassed Pearl Harbor and concentrated instead on British, Dutch and French possession in South East Asia (Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Hong Kong, Burma, Vietnam).

13

Hitler’s “diplomatic policy” towards the other Axis powers was “use and abuse”. For example, he wanted Italy to conquer Africa for him (as best they could) only so he could then take it from Italy. There was no honor among these thieves… - Jinx

14

Actually Hitler was annoyed by Mussolini’s insistence on fighting in Africa. Hitler saw it (correctly) as a sideshow that wouldn’t do anything towards causing an Allied defeat but would draw Axis troops away from more important theaters.