Just saw this, even though I coincidentally answered your questions a few minutes after you made this post. Were you really expecting me to answer you in the middle of the night? You’re certainly not dissuading me from the idea that the left is, shall we say, emotionally over-reactive when it comes to Trump.
Well, nelliebly, you’re asking if I’d vote for a candidate who talks a great game, sits up straight and uses the proper fork, does not engage in unseemly behavior (especially not in public! There’s a reason why we have doors, Donald); certainly didn’t go to some troglodyte mill like UPenn–even worse, the Wharton School of Business (nicknamed “Double Dunce” by the real business schools); and, as a man of integrity, would always whisper a kindly “x-y-z!”, not pretend to like her cat to get another date, and never bully a cashier about a return policy…hmm, I don’t know, I *really *like Trump…
Thanks for your answers! I hope other Trump supporters will respond. And sorry if I don’t keep track of exactly which shifts SDMB posters “work.” 
Obviously I disagree with some of your answers(*), but you did answer! Will other Trump supporters show us as much?
(* - To pick one example, tell us of any pre-Trump Cabinet Secretary as grotesquely unqualified as DeVos, Perry or Carson.)
And right-wingers call democrats “snowflakes”.:rolleyes:
- Fair enough.
- Fair enough.
- Trump is demonstrably worse than the average “sinful guy”. You can try and give him a pass, but you’re only justifying and normalizing a bigot and a pathological liar who is wholly unfit to run his own business, let alone be POTUS.
- What are those beliefs? You carefully avoid sharing what they are but play the victim card because they have been challenged since your childhood. Perhaps you know that they are beliefs that are indefensible.
- It’s human nature to group people based on various criteria, including moral values. Democrats are hardly the first or only group that does this. Stop deflecting and projecting.
I can’t make heads or tails of what this even means.
I don’t know if self-quoting is bad form but I’d still like an answer from Wrenching Spanners or any other Trump supporter.
I’d love to hear the answer as well. But as Shannon Of demonstrated so well, it’s likely to be as much maligned lifelong victims of the evil Democrats.
Things like this is why I can’t take seriously the fanatic anti-Trump contingent:
“Things he did in his first year were horrific and unprecedented for a US President”
G.W. Bush started a war under false pretenses (not the only one he started, but I digress), more than a hundred thousand civilians died. Dead, men, women, children, a war, a MF war based on lies plus all the other bloody ramifications that stemmed from that and further military adventurisms by previous US presidents.
But your moral compass is so out of whack you think Trump (who, mind you, hasn’t actually started any wars) actions are “uniquely horrific”.
The real cherry on top is that the guy running against him wholeheartedly agreed and enabled that same war, and he is supposed to be better than Trump.
What a joke.
As I have detailed earlier in the thread, I do not hate all GOP values and most certainly do not agree with all Dem ideologies.
I think the AOC crowd are only slightly less dangerous than Trump and if I am being completely honest, I hate Trump the person more than anything else.
That all said, I think the far right mainstream GOP like Mike Pence would ruin this country, but if Mitt were running against Joe? That would give me pause to consider.
Call it the Trump effect, but some moderate Republicans I once thought were bad for our country now seem tame in comparison to the 80 IQ child we have in office now.
It’s telling when you can’t defend a position on its merits, raise an immaterial subject that has no bearing whatsoever, attack it to distract and change the subject.
That’s the joke. And it’s not funny anymore.
Now that it is the weekend, I can respond.
You said:
The rule of law is still here.
Is it? Really?
Trump administration blocks prosecution of drug dealers.
Trump attacks judges and prosecutors.
Trump administration seeks do-over for convicted cronies.
Trump argues he is above the law.
And of course there are the hundreds of subpoenas that Trump is ignoring. These are working their way through the courts so maybe the rule of law isn’t dead here but the Trump administration sure is trying to kill it.
And then of course there is this whole fiasco:
Impeachment of Donald J. Trump for Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Justice.
And this whole fiasco:
Russian interference and the obstruction of justice.
And then I could go into all the retaliation the Trump administration has done to punish it’s perceived enemies; Comey, McCabe, Atkinson,, Vindman, Sondland, the other Vindman, and more I can’t even remember.
Now it may be that you think this is all OK, but I doubt you would feel that way if these were actions taken by Obama. You were vociferous in your condemnation of the Obama Administration (sometimes with good reason, I admit) so I can’t imagine you would suport a Democratic Administration attacking the rule of low like this, but maybe I am wrong.
In response to me saying:
He has politicized our judicial branch and used his bully pulpit to instill doubts in its integrity
You said:
The judicial branch has politicized the judicial branch. Trump has appointed some of the best judges on there.
By the way, I never said anything about the judges he has nominated. Most of them are just fine and perfectly acceptable though I don’t agree with much of their ideology. I am talking about Trump using the bully pulpit to instill doubt in the integrity of the judicial branch.
In response to me saying:
He has weakened our trust in journalistic institutions and spread conspiracy theories.
You said
***Journalistic institutions have damaged their own reputations through obvious bias and incompetence.
With some institutions you are right, but that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about Trump spreading conspiracy theories. I am talking about Trump saying that the press is lying (lugenpresse) when their is clear footage showing that they are telling the truth (do I really need to link examples?). Again, are you really OK with your government (of whatever party) regularly undermining the integrity of the press?
If a journalistic institutions damages it’s credibility by being lying, propaganda spreading, pieces of shit, that is one thing (and I agree with you that there are many cases of this on both sides of the political spectrum). If the government actively tries to damage the press that is something else entirely. It bothers me that you are OK with this. Are you going to be OK with this when a Democratic Administration does it? I won’t be and have not been in the limited instances where it has happened.
Sure the “Young Turks” have some crazy ideas, but if you actually pin one down, usually they will admit that they know the ideas as listed are impractical, they are mostly talking or starting points.
No, I get you. He’s rough hewn,. I lived in New York in the '80s, and he was The Trump and Mr Showbiz and all that. He was handsome then. And he did amazing work in the hotel industry, in the building industry in general. The idea that he has an IQ of 80, or is stupid in any way, is preposterous. Someone in this thread even said that he is “unfit to run his own business.” What? That’s like saying Mrs See is unfit to make chocolates, (Californians will get the reference.)
I mean, let’s be real. He went to the Wharton School of Business at UPenn. He was wildly successful in business and enterprise, worked deals and negotiated with hard-ass unions, international suppliers, mega-contractors, construction crews, primadonna architects, you name it. He made it work, with all kinds and sorts of people, which requires intelligence, understanding, perception, and imagination, and would leave no room for bigotry and racism, not if you want to get things done. You just can’t say he’s stupid or racist or a bad businessman. The fruits of his life prove the opposite.
I’m pretty sure that the Left, or Democrats, or whatever you want to call the filet mignon of “you guys” believe that the MSM are unbiased in their coverage of Donald Trump and have uncovered shocking truths.
“We guys” disagree. Which brings me to my next point–you guys have NPR, SNL, Oprah, The Tonight Show, the NYT, the Washington Post, the LA Times, MSNBC, CBS, and all the other broadcast news outlets; you took the helm of public education (which was my reference to kindergarten–it was not a personal reference); you own Hollywood, Broadway, TV entertainment in all its array. Seriously, you really can’t stand that we have…Fox News? How is it even possible that such a powerful cadre of opponents wouldn’t try to bring Trump down?
I truly believe any of his excesses, lies, and mistakes are in keeping with the office he holds. The reason he’s so thoroughly hated is primarily because of what he looks like (weird) and how he acts (crazy), and secondarily because he’s distastefully old-fashioned: he loves America and wants to protect our interests and make us prosperous, yes, in a money and revenue way, right down to the flyover guy.
You know I’m telling the truth–if Obama told the same lies, made the same mistakes as Trump (and did, in his own ways), do you think the MSM would have vilified him the way they do Trump? It’s because Obama played ball and his social programming ideals pleasantly aligned with theirs. Trump doesn’t scratch their backs and make nice, he yells at them because of their outlandish bias and contempt for him, his programs, and his ideals. Probably the POTUS shouldn’t do that, but I’m kind of glad he does. It’s been so long since anyone looked out for us as Americans, as a sovereign people.
It should have read “…much-maligned, lifelong…” Smiley, smiley, smiley! I want to keep hammering home the fact that Republicans, just like Democrats, have both smart AND stupid constituents. That *that *is something I have to emphasize is a sad statement about the prejudice that exists among many Democrats, some in my own family (who get self-conscious when we’re in her car together, listening to NPR–she can’t really call her own sister a conservative moron…or can she?).
You know, in my original post, I was being purposely gentle and sensitive, to amuse myself, and to get my points across, but also to try to steer the conversation toward a more polite course. As a thread it was game at first but, like a party that’s fallen off the fun curve, it was starting to get ugly. Redirecting the course was none of my business, really, and certainly no one asked me to do it. Honestly, in my contrarian heart, I was hoping someone would wheel on me and reply with a vituperative smear of my intelligence and character, in keeping with the tone the thread was taking (which MikeF, was it?, started politely enough, if somewhat provocatively in the last bit of his gambit).
I’m kind of sorry that no one took the bait to crush me, what fun it would have been!, but it does shed new light on an old prejudice I confess to: that, as a group, Democrats are incorrigibly mean-spirited and spiteful. Everyone has been really nice to me here, considering I’m a Republican. Maybe it would be possible to have dinner together without one of us leaping across the table with a knife, or even getting agita.
Would they though?
That shit that went down at Evergreen College a few years ago? Those “woke” students and their “micro aggressions”… that is POTENTIAALY the future core of the democratic party.
While I have voted democrat for 2 decades, THAT is what republicans are afraid of and I do not blame them.
Maybe I have been listening to Jordan Peterson too much, but IMO that wing of the democratic party WOULD have (and still may) push many moderates to the right if not for the trainwreck of villany and lies that exist in the GOP at the moment.
I own and stand by that comment. Just listen to the man talk, his vocabulary is severely limited and (unintentionally) comical, which is certainly appealing to his lower IQ base because he sounds like an everyman (albeit with Daddy’s money and no love for those poor supporters).
Listen to Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton and Obama (hell even Pence) and tell me that Trump “sounds” intelligent.
I understand your oratory skills are not the single definition of intelligence. But I do know that a person who CONSTANTLY reminds me of how smart he is almost EVERYTIME he speaks and at the most bizarre and awkward moments is generally not a smart person.
I would place a not insignificant amount of money that he is one of - if not THE - single most unintelligent POTUS (relatively speaking) in our history.
About the Evergreen College, that was a wonder of a propaganda fear mongering from the right:
https://psmag.com/education/the-real-free-speech-story-at-evergreen-college
As for Jordan Peterson, yes, you need a better source of information.
Again, that was not why I pointed that out. You were wrong by nutpicking, and calling it “low hanging fruit” is just again a fallacious attempt at making the nutty statements as if all the left and liberals are like that.
If you want a direct equivalent of Betsy Devos, go have a look at Obama Secretary of Commerce Penny Pritzker. As for Perry, he was governor of Texas for 15 years and had a political career dating back to 1984. I get the irony that he was selected as Secretary of Energy after calling for the Department of Energy to be abolished, but there’s no question that he had the political experience to be qualified as a cabinet member. Carson was light on political experience, but has a distinguished career as a surgeon and medical director. Just go take a look at the man’s awards. Example: “In 2008, U.S. News & World Report named Carson as one of ‘America’s Best Leaders’”. Ben Carson - Wikipedia
I’m not going to participate in a hijack about Trump cabinet appointments, but this is the kind of irrationality from the left that I’m highlighting. You don’t like somebody because they’re associated with Trump and you don’t like their politics, and therefore they’re unqualified. It’s just another example of the “us vs them” mentality causing both sides to be politically entrenched.