The cheapest way for FL and MI to have a do-over democratic primary vote would be caucuses, and if not caucuses a mail in do-over. Clinton has rejected what some democratic officials say would be the cheapest way to have a do-over - to have caucuses. Cite. According to that article:
Ok, well that would bring up the question, why aren’t Clinton’s supporters as motivated to vote in caucuses? But that’s not what this op is about.
So if not caucuses how about a mail in vote? Well there are proponants and detractors to this way of voting. The number one problem would be mail fraud. Registered democrats not getting their mail, or people withholding the mail from them who support one of the candidates - the verification of signatures or paying folks to vote certain way etc…etc… It’s cheap, yes, but not exactly the most secure way to vote.
At this point having do-over primaries in both states would be way to expensive. Caucuses would be the cheapest, and mail in as second cheapest. But the last factor in all of this is one we must look at. Time. If there is to be a mail in vote, it has to be organized and started yesterday!
Personally, I don’t see this happening in time. Can some people who have participated in a mail in vote respond here? I have never particiapted in an absentee or mail in vote so I am unfamiliar with the prospect.
You guys are so totally fucked it’s not one bit funny. It’s tragic, particularly for millions of voters who are going to end up totally pissed off one way or another.
And your idiotic party leadership brought this on by imposing too harsh penalties for primary date changes.
Had the Democrats did what the Republicans did, and only stripped half a state’s delegates instead of the whole slate, you wouldn’t have any complaints now, in all likelihood - the states in question would have figured they traded some delegates for an earlier say, and would be, if not totally satisfied, at least mollified.
Now you’re scrambling to unfuck this mess. For the sake of the voters involved, I hope you do so, but I won’t pretend that this wasn’t due to spectacular DNC mismanagement in the first place.
And before someone spouts off and blames this on “the Republican controlled Florida legislature” I will remind all of you that in three rounds of voting in the House and Senate there, there were only three dissenting votes total. Clearly Florida Democrats were onboard with this as well.
You mirror the angst of a lot of us. It completely sucks. But the party has made it’s bed and needs to lay in it. To simply allow the seating as is, would be absolutely horrible. And this is the reason they haven’t simply sat already, the DNC knows it would cause a major outcry from millions of democrats.
The reduction of delegates was a smart response by the Republicans. Hopefully I can be forgiven for thinking that this is a case where the parties behave like their stereotypes- The republicans set rules, the guilty party broke the rules, there was a specific punishment meted out, and that punishment was accepted- nay, welcomed- without protest. The democrats set rules, threatened to enforce them, waited to see if it would be necessary, finally had their hand forced when it was too late, and now are hoping that the situation will resolve itself.
I’m becoming a little leery of the mail-in option if only because Clinton surrogates are pushing for that procedure so hard. How will fraud be prevented? How does it work in Oregon?
In Oregon, there is no polling stations anymore. It is ALL mail in voting. (If you don’t mail it in, in time, there are drop stations for your ballots.)
As far as I can tell, and from what I’ve read, etc, mail fraud hasn’t really been a problem.
My point is, a mail-in ballot system would probably work just fine. However while part of me thinks that the people of Michigan and Florida should have their say- I am also of the belief that you can’t retract any punishment laid out. So, we’re just going to have to deal.
As I recall wasn’t Clinton the only candidate to put much effort into those two states to begin with, because they had been stripped of their delegates? The other candidates put their money elsewhere. If this wasn’t the case, who is to say how the polls would have turned out?
I think the Republicans had the better idea. Cut all the delegate votes in half, be they pledged or superdelegates. The Clintons want a do-over just to seat the superdelegates as they might gain them a few dozen of them. The pledged delegates would probably be a near wash.
If they have a do-over in Michigan it should be by mail only for those that voted in the Democratic primary in January. You had to request either a D or an R ballot and the precinct worker recorded your choice. It’s known who voted D in January, we should be the ones to vote.
I don’t fully understand why this is a mess in the first place. The rules were in place, and Florida and Michigan chose to break them. If the states are then disenfranchised in the primary, that’s their own fault. I don’t see why the party is bending over backward to try to accomodate them.
I think the argument will be made by the Clinton camp - that if the FL and MI votes are not counted at all, meaning there is no resolution that will work in time, and Obama wins the nom…then Clinton will cry foul and drag out some sort of grudge match further dragging the dems down the rabbit hole - and essentially ensuring a McCain Administration.
It’s their fault for living in a state that won’t go along with party rules. If they want to vote in the primaries so badly, maybe they shouldn’t elect state representatives who schedule primaries so early, or state party leadership who’ll go along with it.
Well, clearly, and from a perfectly selfish point of view as a Hillary supporter, I want her to get the delegates. But I don’t see it as justified.
That is the only way to ensure that there is no contamination of the results. I believe that if people cared enough to vote before, theirs should be the only votes counted now. Additionally, if you do not do this we run the risk of the opposing party stuffing the ballot box for those that they feel are more easily beaten in November. Whenever I have heard a republican amongst my friends talking about voting in democratic primaries it is precisely for that reason.
The DNC isn’t doing anything to accomodate them. They may want do something eventually since slighting MI and FL voters could impact the general election.
Well, yes, or until time-travel technology is perfected, they could just come to terms with not being able to vote this time, and vote out their state legislators in the next election.
Are you serious? The people who didn’t vote because they knew it wouldn’t count should be penalized for that and not be allowed to vote now? How is that substantively different from allowing the original sham results to stand?
Oh, that’s a perfect solution. “You don’t get to vote this time. Suck it up. Hope this won’t stop you from voting for the party who disenfranchised you and then refused to do anything about it later, in November!”