Titanium is stronger than steel, and lighter. It does not corrode,and it is available in large sheets (suitable for stamping out automobile body panels). So, would it make a better car than steel? Some advantages:
-it would save gasoline, being lighter
-no rusting, longer lasting
-infinitely recyclable, less scrap in junkyards
-no need to paint the body
My question: is there sufficient titanium production to supplant steel?And, is it too expensive for mass-produced cars?
I know that aluminum body cars have been built, but they are quite rare.
You also have to deal with welding for repairs. Could the average body work shop deal with titanium? Can you paint it easily?
You can get many of the advantages with stainless steel, like the Delorean had. I suspect there were problems working with that as well.
Steel is pretty infinately recyclable as well. You don’t need to paint stainless steel. It won’t rust.
Nearly all of the steel in current automobiles is recycled, along with rubber, glass, fluids, and parts.
Well, a quick Googling found an article entitled Titanium in the Family Automobile – The Cost Challenge. However, somewhat annoyingly, it’s only the first page of the article, and the journal is abbreviated JOM, whatever that is.
But I think the critical information is there – titanium is 12-100 times more expensive than steel. Even allowing for density differences, titanium parts would cost at least five times as much. That’s pretty prohibitive in an industry where they sweat bullets to shave manufacturing costs.
In short, for titanium to be useful in automobiles, you’ll have to get the cost down to be competitive with steel. Which I think is difficult because titanium requires significantly more processing to extract it from the ore.
Note that a titanium car would right now be a recycling nightmare because no one would be equipped to handle it.
A decade or two ago, titanium alloys tended to be brittle. I’m not sure that’s changed, and brittleness is definitely undesireable in automotive body panels.
There’re multiple grades of titanium. The properties of the different grades are varied.
From what I’ve seen ‘space craft grade’ titanium jewelry is as expensive as gold. The cost is not because the titanium is expensive, rather it is because the processing of the titanium is expensive.
Aircraft grade titanium alloys are about 3 times stronger than basic steel, and approximately 45% lighter. They are much more durable than gold, silver, or platinum. Aircraft grade titanium (6Al/4V) is 300 to 800% stronger than basic grade (C.P.) titanium. Extra-hard titanium [‘space carft grade’] (6Al/6V/2Sn) is approximately 130% stronger than 6Al/4V titanium.
I don’t think that titanium alloys are brittle. Brittle would make it very undesirable for use in aircraft.
Tungsten is brittle but very hard.
The Alfa class soviet submarines were made of titanium: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/705.htm
Now, that’s gotta be expensive :eek:
I can imagine that repairs such as welding would be nearly impossible. When the weld of my titanium frame glasses went, there was no way of getting it repaired short of finding someone who could weld titanium. To weld titanium, as I understand it, you need an inert enviroment (I think argon) and one heck of a torch. This is why, as much as I loved the titanium frames, I’m never going to get them again because the completely inability to repair.
Titanium, bah!
I want mag-lith!
Heck, there are barely any cars made from aluminum because of the expense of welding. Besides, your insurance would be ridiculously high because if you wrecked it, I doubt that any body shop would be able to repair it, and the parts would be very expensive.
Magnesium is even lighter than tiatnium…but it is only as strong as aluminum. Still, being lighter, it should nmake a fuel-efficient car. Several Russian WWII fighter planes were made of magnesium alloy.
Of course, it (magnesium) has a tendency to burn. :smack:
How so? I thought aluminium welding was pretty commonplace. That’s how my bike is put together.
Ignoring all other factors, the cost factor alone sinks it. Really, one can debate the finer points for some time, but quite simply the cost is so outrageous relative to steel that there’s little point in doing so.
IIRC, Chrysler built a version of the Neon a while back (not mass produced) that had a lot of titanium engine parts. Was called the neon lite (mentioned here, apparently.
My motorcycle has magnesium alloy wheels. They are quite light (for a production wheel), which is great for handling. Compared to, say, a traditional steel-rimmed spoked wheel, it’s amazing. Of course, if they get out of true at all, they can’t be re-trued, unlike the traditional wheel.
Of course, so does aluminum and titanium…if you get them hot enough they’ll burn in a self-sustaining reaction. I’ve seen aluminum lit on fire in a chemistry class, but I’ve never been able to burn a soda can in a campfire despite many tries. I don’t know what the ignition temperature of aluminum or titanium is, but I bet it is higher than any expected gasoline fire temperatures, unless you have aluminum powder.
“I don’t think that titanium alloys are brittle. Brittle would make it very undesirable for use in aircraft.”
Titanium is very brittle and it doesn’t flex like some other metals and composite materials.
I worked in a machine shop for four years that specialized in titanium fabrication (in Detroit) and I can tell you that it is hard to machine and deal with in many ways and the payoff would be pretty minimal for a vehicle. In short, titanium has an almost mythical status to it and it isn’t all that impressive in real life :-). Sure, it feels lighter than steel but magnesium and aluminum have these traits as well.
Here is why I think titanium would be a pain in the ass for vehicles:
- it wouldn’t collapse like steel to absorb energy in an accident
- even worse, reduced mass would lead to less collapse and more “bounce” in an accident. Ouch. Splintering…that could happen too.
- body shops aren’t equipped to deal with this material, and if they were…it would be more expensive because sanding/drilling/cutting/ect involves chewing up more consumables (like drill bits)
- titanium is not as available as steel. Ten years ago a large amount was coming from Russia…and I’m not sure if that is still the case.
- Like magnesium, titanium can burn real nice and pretty if the right metal to air ration is present (like splinters and shavings). We used to crumple up our shavings, light them up with a lighter and throw them at each other
It sounds good, but other metals or composites are better. Titanium is probably suited for more extreme temperature ranges too.
Just some thoughts. Someone else probably knows more…
Yeah, but think of all the cool movie stunts involving cars that shatter on impact.