I’m not sure if that’s meant to be ironic. Direct questions answered in indirect ways do not add clarity.
Looking at this report by Pew Research, it looks like only a four percent of the workers are in agriculture.
The breakdown is
service, 33%
construction, 15%
production, installation and repair, 15%
sales, office and admin 13%
management or professional 13%
transportation, 8%
agriculture, 4%
Certainly, it is well known that farmers do not want to lose their source of lower paid employees, but the service and construction fields employ far more.
We most likely destroy our own, too. Mexico is our second largest export market, and takes 15% of all US goods exports.
Right, but if you look at which industries are most dependent on those workers, agriculture is far and away the one with the most to lose - and thus the one doing the lobbying. Many of the “service” workers are maids, housekeepers, gardeners and so on in private residences, so their employers obviously don’t form a cohesive lobbying bloc.
Then I’ll clarify the situation. You do not speak for the rest of us, right or left. You may speak for some, but you do not speak for all. Claiming that you do does not make it so.
What part of “illegal” immigrant do you not understand? Strictly-speaking, an “illegal” immigrant is an immigrant who has entered another country “illegally”. They have committed an “illegal” act. They are criminals.
There are many foreign nationals who are attempting to “legally” enter the U.S.A… They’ve waded thru the paperwork, waited in the lines, meet the qualifications, and deserve to me here. They are willing to obey the laws of the U.S.A… They are not criminals.
I always find it amusing when people chose to describe “illegal” aliens as guest workers, or undocumented workers. It’s as if changing the title actually made the “guest workers” LEGAL aliens.
You can claim that ANTI-ILLEGAL-IMMIGRATION sentiment is historically and presently mainly associated with racism but that association is being made by you and others who appear to support ILLEGAL immigration.
“Illegal” would have more of a sting if American history weren’t filled with illegal acts that were nonetheless either morally acceptable (e.g. growing pot in one’s yard for personal use) or morally imperative (e.g. assisting black people in escaping from slavery, refusing to abide by segregation, etc.).
Well, no.
- Technical quibble: Many illegal immigrants did, in fact, enter legally, on a visa. Overstaying the visa (i.e., failing to leave) was the illegal act.
- Not all illegal acts are criminal acts. There is civil law and criminal law. Cite for overstaying a visa being a criminal rather than civil violation? (I honestly don’t know: you may be right here.)
- If it’s civil law, calling them “criminals” is not, strictu sensu, accurate. Are people with speeding tickets criminals?
But then, maybe that’s why you kept putting “illegal” in quotes.
“Illegal” is in quotes because there seems to be some misunderstanding between “legal” aliens/immigrants and “illegal” aliens/immigrants. I assume you know the difference.
You can add “overstaying their visa” to the list of illegal actions, if you prefer.
What you are overlooking is that there are many illegal immigrants working as “service” workers for restaurants, hotels, resorts, etc. Those industries have very large, powerful lobbying organizations and those industries also have a lot to lose in this situation. The National Restaurant Association and the American Hotel & Lodging Association are just two of the groups I am certain have a position on this issue.
I mentioned earlier that authentic-looking counterfeit ID is pretty easy to get. I don’t know what the percentage is, but I am certain there is a significant proportion of workers in the service/hotel and related industries who are working with bogus documents.
Unless you have a cite for it, this is simply conjecture. There is no doubt that farmers contribute significantly to lobbying efforts, but given the tiny percentage of undocumented workers in the agricultural field, it would seem most likely that message is being backed by other industries as well.
No, no, let him do it. Mexico would get protectionism back and an end to NAFTA for free, and a lack of visas doesn’t mean anything if Mexico is just sending migrants across without papers. :rolleyes:
I’m sorry, I’m not sure what I exactly I was trying to define as the “major premise” in that sentence.
The premise we deny is the idea that immigration is somehow suddenly a major menace to society if someone doesn’t get a visa, maybe?
The premise we deny is the authoritarianism that considers foreigners to be outlaws by default?
I don’t really remember. Sorry.
No, they are not. “Criminal” has a specific legal meaning, and undocumented aliens are not included in that definition. Not all infractions of the law are “crimes.” Not all laws define people as “criminals” or “law-abiding citizens.”
Crossing the border of the USA without a visa is not a “crime,” as a matter of law. It’s an irregularity, it’s an infraction, it can get you deported, but it’s not a crime.
You are incorrect.
Theft, larceny, murder; those are crimes. Can you tell the difference between those kinds of things, and walking around on the “wrong” side of a line in the dust?
Oh, and “guest worker” refers to legal resident aliens with work visas. A legal category that apparently US politicians refuse to even encode into US law.
But hey, thanks for showing how overconfident you are in your ignorance more than once in a single post.
Well, by allowing illegal immigrants to stay in the US, you are telling the people who immigrated legally (and followed the law) that they are fools. Also, local jurisdictions are washing their hands-illegals convicted of serious crimes are often set free-that as the situation that resulted in the murder of the SF woman. here in MA, an illegal (also a multiple deportee) murdered a local man (drove over him while drunk, and dragged the body 5 miles). Yes, illegals are criminals.
Not at all. Unless you’re under the mistaken impression that outcomes are equal for both groups. Do you honestly think that legal resident noncitizens are just kicking themselves for not going the easy route involving coyotes, heatstroke, and living underground and in fear? Please.
Can you back that up? Because it certainly sounds like hogwash, but I’m more than willing to be persuaded otherwise.
Deplorable. Disgusting. Horrific. And, fortunately, exceptional rather than the norm.
You point to two evil acts and then…what? Extrapolate that to all “illegals?” How does that work, Mr. Trump?
.
Ok, no problem. Can you respond to the other part which I thought was the more significant claim you made? You implied that being against illegal immigration was necessarily motivated by racism. Is that a fair interpretation?
Eh, I think I was saying “usually” rather than “necessarily.” I’m not convinced that it’s logically necessary to be racist to be anti-immigration. It can also be the product of a thoughtless and simplistic legalism. Or it could be rooted in conservationism.
That said, in fact, if “motivated by racism” can mean “impelled by the biases of the racists around you,” then a lot of it is “motivated by racism.” Indirectly.
Probably more “paranoid xenophobia” than “racism” but with racist cultural roots.
That’s good to know. I guess they can now shut down ICE and INS. That should save the taxpayers a few billion bucks.
Walking around on the “wrong” side of a line in the dust (aka within the sovereignty of another nation’s border) used to get you detained, arrested, and deported for violating that nations laws. It appears now that some illegal aliens can repeatedly travel to a nice sanctuary city and murder someone. After all, the sanctuary cities only provides sanctuary for illegal aliens, not for legal residents.
**INA: ACT 275 - ENTRY OF ALIEN AT IMPROPER TIME OR PLACE; MISREPRESENTATION AND CONCEALMENT OF FACTS
Sec. 275. [8 U.S.C. 1325]
(a) Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) 1/ Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of-
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) An individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, United States Code, or both. **
http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-9025.html#0-0-0-332
It’s illegal to bring illegal aliens into the U.S…
*8 U.S. Code § 1324 - Bringing in and harboring certain aliens
(a) Criminal penalties
(1)
(A) Any person who—
(i) knowing that a person is an alien, brings to or attempts to bring to the United States in any manner whatsoever such person at a place other than a designated port of entry or place other than as designated by the Commissioner, regardless of whether such alien has received prior official authorization to come to, enter, or reside in the United States and regardless of any future official action which may be taken with respect to such alien;
(ii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law;
(iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation;
(iv) encourages or induces an alien to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in violation of law; or
(v)
(I) engages in any conspiracy to commit any of the preceding acts, or
(II) aids or abets the commission of any of the preceding acts,
shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B).
(B) A person who violates subparagraph (A) shall, for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs—
(i) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i) or (v)(I) or in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii), (iii), or (iv) in which the offense was done for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain, be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both;
(ii) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(ii), (iii), (iv), or (v)(II), be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both;
(iii) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i), (ii), (iii), (iv), or (v) during and in relation to which the person causes serious bodily injury (as defined in section 1365 of title 18) to, or places in jeopardy the life of, any person, be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both; and
(iv) in the case of a violation of subparagraph (A)(i), (ii), (iii), (iv), or (v) resulting in the death of any person, be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, fined under title 18, or both.
(C) It is not a violation of clauses [1] (ii) or (iii) of subparagraph (A), or of clause (iv) of subparagraph (A) except where a person encourages or induces an alien to come to or enter the United States, for a religious denomination having a bona fide nonprofit, religious organization in the United States, or the agents or officers of such denomination or organization, to encourage, invite, call, allow, or enable an alien who is present in the United States to perform the vocation of a minister or missionary for the denomination or organization in the United States as a volunteer who is not compensated as an employee, notwithstanding the provision of room, board, travel, medical assistance, and other basic living expenses, provided the minister or missionary has been a member of the denomination for at least one year.
(2) Any person who, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has not received prior official authorization to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, brings to or attempts to bring to the United States in any manner whatsoever, such alien, regardless of any official action which may later be taken with respect to such alien shall, for each alien in respect to whom a violation of this paragraph occurs—
(A) be fined in accordance with title 18 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; or
(B) in the case of—
(i) an offense committed with the intent or with reason to believe that the alien unlawfully brought into the United States will commit an offense against the United States or any State punishable by imprisonment for more than 1 year,
(ii) an offense done for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or
(iii) an offense in which the alien is not upon arrival immediately brought and presented to an appropriate immigration officer at a designated port of entry,
be fined under title 18 and shall be imprisoned, in the case of a first or second violation of subparagraph (B)(iii), not more than 10 years, in the case of a first or second violation of subparagraph (B)(i) or (B)(ii), not less than 3 nor more than 10 years, and for any other violation, not less than 5 nor more than 15 years.
(3)
(A) Any person who, during any 12-month period, knowingly hires for employment at least 10 individuals with actual knowledge that the individuals are aliens described in subparagraph (B) shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both.
(B) An alien described in this subparagraph is an alien who—
(i) is an unauthorized alien (as defined in section 1324a (h)(3) of this title), and
(ii) has been brought into the United States in violation of this subsection.
(4) In the case of a person who has brought aliens into the United States in violation of this subsection, the sentence otherwise provided for may be increased by up to 10 years if—
(A) the offense was part of an ongoing commercial organization or enterprise;
(B) aliens were transported in groups of 10 or more; and
(C)
(i) aliens were transported in a manner that endangered their lives; or
(ii) the aliens presented a life-threatening health risk to people in the United States.*
Ok. Here you say anti-immigration but earlier you said anti-illegal immigration. I think there is a significant difference. Do you grant that one can be anti-illegal immigration without any hit of racist motivation, direct or indirect?
I don’t understand what this has to do with the overall content of the post you were replying to.
Anyway, obeying the laws of a foreign country and political action don’t feed your kids. I doubt such moralizing would sway any immigrant sufficiently desperate enough to take the risk. And why should it?