Christianity and Islam have the same rules (for the most part) as other religions WRT converting and worshipping in the face of death.
WRT Islam, however, there is more (but not complete) lattitude. For example, one may be able to recite the Allahu Akhbar under pain of death because (a) the Muslim conception of God is identical to the Jewish conception of God and (b) it would then only involve making a false statement that Mohammed is a prophet - not something that one would have go give one’s life to avoid.
The Conversos (Marranos, BTW, translates to “pigs”) were under great pressure in Spain. By seeming to adopt Christian worship and publicly participating in such (even if they were secretly keeping their own religion) was wrong. However, I personally cannot judge people who are put into terrible situations such as that - and, as such, all I can tell you was that their actions were wrong. I will not, however, due to the extreme situation, call them “awful people.”
Minimally observant does not equal ignorance, either.
Even the most unobservant Reform Jew probably knows that kosher laws needn’t be strictly adhered to in a truly life-or-death situation. In my experience, that’s one of the first things that curious Gentiles ask upon finding out that they’re talking to a Real Live Jew who is willing to answer questions.
And even the most unobservant Reform Jew would probably know that when dealing with difficult questions such as the one presented in the show, the only thing to do is get in contact with an Orthodox Rabbi. Whole lifetimes have been spent hashing out the tough questions. The Talmud is a wonderful tool. Even if the Talmud doesn’t specifically address heart-valve replacement, the Orthodox Rabbis would be able to extrapolate and come up with an answer.
And even if the parents of the girl in question didn’t know to ask an Orthodox Rabbi, I’m surprised that none of the doctors or nurses or other people at the hospital didn’t think of it. Being non-Jewish doesn’t necessarily equal ignorance, either.
If the scriptwriters couldn’t create a sufficiently dramatic episode which included a consultation with a Rabbi, then they should have ditched the storyline altogether.
Spreading this kind of misinformation does matter. I don’t expect prime time TV shows to provide Jewish education to the masses, but they shouldn’t get this kind of stuff so egregiously wrong, either. There is an unbelievable level of ignorance about Judaism in the country, and it does not help to have people thinking that Jews are a bunch of whackadoos who would rather die than violate some seemingly arbitrary rule. We’d have died out a long time ago if we didn’t have some kind of “survival trumps kashruth” clause in our contract.
Yup, that’s right. For the record, green eyes are blue eyes with yellow fat deposits on the iris, making them look green. In case you need to tease a sibling or something about their fat eyes.
Okay, I’ll stop now, zev. Back to your originally scheduled thread.
I’m proud to say that because of the SDMB and zev in particular, that as I watched that part of “Grey’s Anatomy” I thought, “I don’t think the porcine valve would violate anything as long as it was butchered correctly, etc.” It looks like I didn’t get the details quite right, but I am glad I wasn’t totally going along with the story line as <ahem> gospel truth.
I’m torn on the use of someone who has no chance of being pregnant saying that if they were it would be an “immaculate conception.” On the one hand, it’s incorrect dogmatically but on the other hand it’s a such a common mistake that using it does reflect reality. What do the writers mean to do? Hard to say.
The other one is when a Catholic priest or nun (Brothers don’t seem to ever be shown) leaves their vocation, shown as still a practicing Catholic, but now is ready for hanky-panky. Hello, just because you’re no longer a religious doesn’t mean all moral guidelines are off.
Not too hijack the thread, but I was on one of the test screenings for Revalations. I watched the network debut out of morbid curiousity, and believe it or not, the Eschatology was turned way down, compared to the test screening.
The nun (at least in my screening) was disliked by almost all viewers, and she remained. Go figure.
I made that one work in my head by thinking "House got a better view of those kids than we did, took one look at two or three of those kids (and having seen the husband up close, too), and being the cynical bastard he is thought “no way is that his.”
He then threw a scientific-enough answer at the wife to make her realize that he was on to her.
I also thought the Grey’s Anatomy story had more to do with teenage rebellion than actual Jewish practice. She was too over the top and too self righteous for too long. It reminded me of some kids who go ultra-fundamental in response to their parents’ laxer version of Christianity.
Briefly, if she was in a circumstance where she could scream for help she is meant to do so. But if she is in some place far from help then she has done nothing wrong. That’s OTTOMH from Leviticus or somewhere near.
Forgive me but I still don’t understand. If a rapist holds a knife to her throat and says “if you scream I will kill you” she can’t save her life by keeping silent?
How about ‘the most unobservant Reconstructionist Jew’?
But, in any case, I somehow doubt that many Reform Jews would give it enough though to ask an Orthodox rabbi. When faced with a ‘difficult question’ such as that, I’d wager that most of us who were raised Reform would simply say “fuck it” and do what we thought was right.
I’ll kick that one up to zev or cmkeller, as I expect the question has been as thoroughly discussed as the one about using pig organs in surgery; the answer I gave was just straight from the Old Testament. In which, btw, there seems to be a presumption that a woman accosted in a place far from help would have screamed, but there was no-one to hear.
From what I understand (and I must point out that I am not a Rabbi, so please consult with your local rabbi for a real halachic ruling), in Icerigger’s first case (where someone says “sleep with me or I’ll kill you” one must allow oneself to be killed.
His second case is not as clear – here the choice is between death or remaining silent. The fact that a rape may follow said silence may or may not be a differentiating factor. I simply don’t know.
However, as Malacandra points out, if one is forced (i.e. she is not given the option of death) and has no other option then there is no sin (on the part of the woman).
Good, female rabbis, excellent - maybe they can answer my burning Judaic question…
If the spouse of a male rabbi is a rebbitzin, what does one call the spouse of a female rabbi? Besides Dave or whatever. Zev, chime in if’n you know as well. This one’s made me wonder for years.
As I mentioned, in Judaism, in most cases, one can dispense with most of the laws to save one’s (or another’s) life. But when it comes to the Big Three (idolatry, murder and sexual immorality), then the laws are quite firm. You’re welcome to disagree - but that’s the halacha (Jewish law).
Did anyone catch Law and Order last night? There was a mish-mash of Jewish stuff mixed in with an organ selling ring for blackmarket kidneys, but I digress. A woman who was killed was in love with an Orthodox Jew and she displayed that love by having his name tatooed on her ankle. There was all sorts of stuff that just didn’t feel right in that episode.
Richard Belzer plays a Jewish detective, and his character is the authority on all things Jewish on the show.
