Would Jesus have "made it" today?

Great Debates
#1

The ancient book of fairy tales that was crammed down my throat for the last 17+ years says that Jesus (the “Son of God”:rolleyes: ) lived on Earth for 33 years and NEVER sinned.

But that was over 2000 years ago.

Porn, drugs, suggestive movies, loose sexual standards. I say theres no way he could last 33 years now and not party serious at least once. Yet allegedly we’re all judged on standards set 20 centuries ago.

Assuming we all know what “sin” is, would he be able to come down here and do it again?

#2

John Ashcroft is now aged 51.

#3

I’m not Christian, but I think the general idea is that Jesus had some supernatural, divine, non-sinning thing going. So, whatever the temptation, he’s not going to sin. It’s not just that he didn’t have the opportunity at the time…

#4

Hayduke Lives!!:

Obviously, with all that “cramming,” you don’t even understand the book…

Probably because you never wanted to…

#5

Yeah, what Capt said. It’s kinda a ‘by definition’ thing. Even in the ‘Good Ol Days’ there was ample access to sin.

#6

From my understanding, it’s not that Jesus didn’t sin, it’s that he couldn’t sin, by definition. Consider Mark 2:23-28 and Matthew 12:1-12, where Jesus and his disciples harvest and eat grain on the Sabbath. This would have been a severe sin under Jewish law – for most people – but Jesus is allowed to do it because “the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” Also, consider Matthew 5:22 – “Whosoever say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire,” – and Matthew 23:17, “Ye fools and blind”. (Both are quotations of Jesus.) There are a couple other examples of Jesus doing something which would be sinful for anyone else. But it’s not sinful for him, because he was, by definition, incapable of sin. (In the case of the Sabbath, previously sinful activities were made non-sinful because Jesus did them.)

The standards for sin were just as unrealistic 2000 years ago as they are now. The idea is that everyone has to be a sinner so they deserve to be punished eternally; thus, salvation must be attained through belief rather than action. Remember that God is willing to condemn people to an eternity of fire and suffering for telling a single lie, or thinking certain sinful thoughts. Even if a person were able to live without committing a single sinful action, any sinful thoughts might suffice for condemnation, and even if there had been none of those, you must still be punished because someone ate a piece of fruit 6000 years ago.

#7

Remember that God is willing to condemn people to an eternity of fire and suffering for telling a single lie, or thinking certain sinful thoughts.

I think you’re looking at it backwards.

God was willing to condemn Jesus to death on a cross to get you out of a mess that you got yourself into. It’s not about the apple in Eden, it’s about the stuff YOU’VE done that God knew you were gonna do. Rather than just send you to hell, He made a way out.

Not that any of this matters, I can see it going in one ear and out the other … oops there it went …

#8

Of course I never wanted to. That’s why it had to be forced upon me.:rolleyes: The older I get, and the more I think about what my beliefs are, the more I find old beliefs I artificially held to be nonsense. I ask these types of questions not because I’m interested in religion, but more because I’m fascinated that 21st century man still puts a ridiculous book of superstitious razz-matazz in such high regard.

To me, the bible reads like a collaboration between George Lucas and Frank Baum.

#9

Hey, *Haydike, He didn’t “make it” then either. He was executed as a danger to the Roman Empire and the movement that now bears his name was started years later by someone else and it bears little resemblance in its activity to the message He allegedly gave.

#10

And here I thought you just did it to provoke and insult Christians. I’m glad you have higher motives.

#11

Technically, he is not really insulting Christians. I think following the message given in the book by interpretation to today’s standards is completely different than following it word for word according to the circumstances present 2000 years ago.

#12

Porn, drugs, loose sex… are symptoms of sin.
The root of sin is “rebellion against God” “to be leader of your own destiny”

Jesus did not have that in him then and I don’t believe he would have that in him now. He did/would be obediant to God which would be to turn away from those sins that would be tempting.
To seek ye first the kingdom…

So yes he could pass your test.

#13

but from Roaches explaination, Jesus COULD have done these things, but would have been exempt from judgement on them, because he was the son of god. “do as i say, not as i do” …

I always found this to be a major flaw in the system. while jesus was preaching one way, he was free to act another.

#14

I always wondered why Christians held Jesus’s lack of sin in such high regard. If he was the son of god (or the mortal incarnation of god) then why should he be applauded for fighting “temptations” when he is a supernatural and holy creature forged out of the divine?

#15

Good point. It’s sort of like lionizing Bill Gates for not shoplifting.

#16

I doubt Jesus could make it today for the vast majority, although he could be a cult following for a few. John Edwards speaks to the dead, as well as Sylvia Browne, and Uri Geller bends spoons with his mind, and there are many lekatt’s out there that eat this stuff up. He would need to work some real miracles, and since many scholars say the miracles stories were added later, he wouldn’t have those going for him either. He would be exposed much more quickly in this day and age for the charlatan that he is. Family members thought he was crazy then, and I doubt that would change much today, and the only place he could make it is the nearest mental institution. He would have to change his views on a lot of things, but I guess he could pretend he was misquoted on a lot of it. It would also be nice if he could finally have some kind words for his mother after him supposedly being so pro-family and all. Personally, I think she should have slapped the Jesus out of him on more than one occasion.

JZ

#17

So, do you just hate Christianity, or do you actually wonder how anyone could hold a piece of art/literature/philosophy in ‘high regard’?

People have always found inspiration and guides in stories. Does it really shock you so much that a story thousands of years old still has relevance?

I guess I’m not really sure what your Great Debate is here?

You first ask if Jesus could have survived the temptations of today, and as other posters point out, Jesus by definition is sin-proof, and there certainly has always been plenty of oportunity for ‘sin’ throughout the ages. Just because Jesus didn’t have E doesn’t mean he couldn’t have had a ‘good time’ if he had wanted to.

Then, your second post is nothing more than thinly-veiled scorn and ridicule to all those who do hold that ‘ridiculous’ book in high regard.

#18

I always found this to be a major flaw in the system. while jesus was preaching one way, he was free to act another.

Had Jesus sinned, He wouldn’t have been able to die on the cross. So no, He really wasn’t free to do as He pleased, if He wanted to fulfill His purpose.

#19

It’s a “mess” that God created then. If I put a gun to your head and then say you can be saved if you kiss my ass I’m not being “merciful,” I’m being an asshole. It’s completely disngenuous for a god to set up a system where people are eternally punished for little or no fucking reason and then act like he’s doing some big favor by planting one religion out of thousands which people are somehow supposed to know is the “right” one and then frrying anyone who chooses differently. I want no part of that God. That God is a evil, sadistic, egomanical scumbag. Satan was right to tell him to get fucked. If that’s really God, then I hope Satan kicks his ass.

As to the OP, If Jesus is God, then he is omnipotent and he can live anywhere, anytime without sin…it’s not an accomplishment, though. If Jesus was just a guy (which of course he was, let’s be real) then he was a “sinner” then too.

#20

Thousands of other people were crucified without being “sinless.” Why couldn’t Jesus die just as good as anyone else?