WTF Lib? If you do what you do to avoid burning in hell are you really exercising free will? Of course not. You are merely submitting to a more powerful being. Therefore since everything you do is based in fear, nothing you do is moral.
I don’t believe in a burning hell. So, what now?
Atheists do not believe in ANY god, including Satan.
Here’s another connundrum about religion:
As I have studied for years in Catholic school, “Let him who have understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number.
It’s number is 666.”
Now, “understanding,” in this context means education, “reckon” means remember. 666 or 6/66 is gematria (sp??) an ancient Hebrew number/letter system. 666 means, “Beware of Nero.” It was scrawled on walls warning
anyone who decided to follow Christ at the time of Nero was reiterating
a warning because Nero ordered, “Kill all Christians.”
Nero was also not only disorganized, but was Rome’s WORST violinist
to this date.
Fast forward to the 20th century. Now 666 suddenly refers to a red creature with a tail and horns who is fantastic at the violin!
Since learning this, I have a new respect for graffiti, but am still
an Atheist.
So you are not a christian? Good to know. At John 3:13, ‘Nobody has gone to heaven other than he who came from heaven. Also “to be cast into Hell Fire where the worms dieth not and the fire is not quenched.” And Isaiah 66:24, It says, ‘Then they’ll go out and see the carcasses of men, those who rebelled against Me. Their worms won’t come to an end, and their fire will not be extinguished. And they’ll be a sight for all flesh [to see].’Psalm 21:9-12, ‘For You will throw them into an oven of fire…Revelation 20:10, ‘Then the Opposer who misled them will be thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the wild animal and the false prophet already are, and they will be tortured day and night for ages of ages.’ … Psalms 28:1, ‘I’ll call out to You O Jehovah; my God I won’t remain silent, so You will never be silent with me, and make me like those who enter the pit.’…Genesis 2:16, 17, ‘You are free to eat from all the trees of paradise, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of Good and Bad. Because, on whatever day you eat from it, your life will end and you will die…Proverbs 12:7 tells us, ‘When the irreverent are overturned they’ll disappear but the homes of the righteous will remain.
So you don’t believe in the teachings of the Bible? In other words you are a member of the Church of Making Shit Up…
Satan isn’t a god, or at least isn’t in many belief systems. Atheism denotes a lack of belief in gods, like you say, but says nothing about other supernatural systems. The question is, does a belief in Satan require belief in the specific god God, or would a Satan in a belief system without that god be Satan? I suppose it’s up to them.
I was under the impression that 666 was actually a poor translation of 616 (IIRC). But you’re the Catholic school student.
Also I don’t think violins had been invented yet. But i’m just nitpicking, really.
I’m a member of the Church of Making Shit Up.
…or am I?
(this is the serpent talking & the serpent is defined as Satan in Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 - below)
Whatever floats your boat. I’m not married to the term.
I cherry pick what I believe from the Bible. And I don’t attend any church.
I looked it up expecting it to be pretty clear but on actually reading it i’m not really sure that the serpent is Satan.
The punishment especially makes it sound like this is just a snake, rather than Satan. It’s referred to in terms of other animals, not other angels or demons. Your assumption that it is seems to be just based on that both are referred to as serpents; but in both the cases where it’s Satan the Bible clearly identifies it as such. And on top of that, he’s referred to as a dragon, which tend to have limbs and wings, after the point at which he’s supposed to have none.
And I don’t believe it supports your point. Follow the same course of action? Certainly, under your viewpoint. But i’m not taking any advice.
I don’t know any Satanists (members of the Church of Satan) who believe in the literal being with red skin and horns and a pointy tail. Most of them are actually cynical humanists who don’t suffer fools, and see no reason why a fool shouldn’t quickly be parted from his money, his self-respect and his girlfriend.
They’d all make great Dopers, actually.
So what makes you different than David Koresh, the Hale Bop Suicides, Timothy McVeigh, Charles Manson and the other cherry picking nuts? What logical justification is there for cherry picking? Either you believe or you make shit up…If you make shit up, why should we care what you believe any more than we care what Jeffery Dahmer believes?
Wow. I’ve seen some false dichotomies before, but that one takes the cake. Which Bible should I believe, in your view? The Catholic one, the Protestant one, or the Jewish one? Maybe the Jehovah’s Witness one, or the Mormon one? And which translation, in case you pick a subset with contradictory texts? And when you pick one, should I believe the genealogy in Matthew or the genealogy in Luke? Did you maybe think that every Christian was a KJV literalist or something?
OK, I do hear what you are saying but don’t think it is the same. One is self guided, the other is allowing another to guide you. but yes you have to make that decision to allow yourself to submit to God.
While technically you are correct, theologically I beleive you to be wrong. Satan just doesn’t want you to follow God, he doesn’t care how you do that.
Are you sure? The Gospel of Thomas wasn’t discovered until the 1940s, the Gospel of Peter wasn’t discovered until the 1880s, and the Gospel of Mary in the 1890s. So it’s really unlikely he even knew of any of those gospels. He did write his own Gospel, with the miracles and teachings he considered “unauthentic” removed.
Thanks for the best laugh I’ve had today. Sorry but that just means your scripture is ridiculous.
If we define “self guided” as “doing that which you yourself wish to do”, then following God is as much self guided as choosing not to. And it’s not just a one-time decision; each time you consider what God would want you to do, you rededicate yourself to his cause; again, making the decision based on what you want to do. If atheists make themselves their own gods, then you do, also.
No, I get what you mean. I’m saying the difference is in that atheism does not imply taking the advice of Satan; merely that they are following the route he would like them to lead. It may just be a happy coincedence for him.
Satan is not mentioned by name in the books of Moses, these are the 1st 5 books of the Bible. The first time Satan is mentioned by name is pretty interesting, it’s in 1 Chronicles 21:1, which has a corrosponding section in 2 Samuel 24:1. In Samuel the Lord is credited with the action, in Chronicles Satan is.
The next time is in Job, where we get a glimpse of what his nature is. At this time Satan is just a generic term, but then again OT names ARE ALL generic terms. The next time is in Zechariah which is the last OT reference. Here Satan is shown before the Lord accusing man.
Then we are into NT times where Satan, and much more is much better defined, and it shows when Satan is condemned at this time as well (though the name Satan is not used here).
This is the general pattern of the Bible. The NT is the OT reveled, and the OT is the NT concealed is a way I have heard this. Introducing Satan in Genesis would not really fit the overall pattern of the Bible.
There is some belief that the serpent is a lesser demon, or a demon possessed animal, but even so in Revelation I think it’s pretty clear where God places the responsibility on the snakes action.
Do you think that almost every christian does that? Also, do you think religions are organizations based on belief systems, rather than the belief systems themselves?
(I do, but then, I’m an atheist and have always been, so I’d like to have some input from someone the believing side)
Adolph Hitler was a Christian and described himself as such. He focused on Jesus tossing the money lenders from the temple as an example of Jesus being a fighter and anti Jew. Bible interpretation has resulted in horrible aberrations, from snake handlers to Hitler. People interpret their religion to suit their needs.
I’m suggesting that the actions of man, (when they act like religious right-wing morons), should be discounted; and God should not be blamed for the actions of intolerant or rigid religious people. God is not about these people and their actions, or their warped interpretations of His will. God is, it’s that simple.
I’m saying that when you observe what appears to be self-righteous religious zealots, they are not representative of God. They’re just morons. God gets a bad rap for the actions of morons… That’s what I’m saying.