Would people be so religious if they knew what religion caused?

Your welcome, I had a great laugh at it also :smiley:

Complain to the author :wink:

Right, then logical people who observe this behavior throw away the baby with the bathwater… In othe words, they discount “all religion” because of a few morons or self-righteous, judgmental idiots who give religion … and even God a bad name.

But how are we supposed to know the difference? Should we chalk up all the good things believers do to God and everything else to corruption? If yes, what does that make the believers but wretched animals dragged by God’s chain to do some good some of the time?

I feel the more I think about the christian religion the worse it seems in its view of human kind and the way we should deal with each other.

Ok, I still see it as yes and no. One way to look at it is to join the military, you have the free will choice to join or not, once you do your ass is their for your term of service. Yes you can disobey a direct order, but there are rules (and consequences) associated with disobedience. But faithful service is a free will decision.

In enlisting in the satanic kingdom free will can be breached however through demonic possession.

If I ever meet him, I certainly will. :slight_smile:

Yes, but it is Satan that opened that door. Besides opening that door, it is possible for Satan to influence you to take that path, even without the person knowing they are being influenced.

Oh great. Now I’ve got a snake talking to me and I don’t even know it. Are you really serious about this or are you going on dogma? Because this is just too convenient a way to dismiss anything at all that’s not strictly condoned by the bible.

I think this seems the more likely; a serpent who was not Satan but was influenced by him. That seems the most likely from scripture to me, anyway.

I think it is a good analogy. A soldier joining the military certainly shows he intends to follow the orders of his superiors. But if he does get ordered to do something he doesn’t want to, then he won’t do it. This shows that in fact all the orders he takes are ones that overall he wants to do also. He doesn’t at any point do something he doesn’t want to do (again, overall). Likewise, you as a believer do what you believe God wants because you want to do it. You elect to do what you want to do, just as I do. At no point do you put God’s will above your own, because your will is to do his will. At the very least you hold both your opinions in equal esteem; if you agree to the possibility that God may actually not exist, even just a tiny theoretical possibility, then you admit to the idea that there is a potential point at which you would not follow God’s will. OTOH, there is no such point at which you would not follow your own will. Thus if you accept the possibility of being wrong, you prioritise your own will above that of God’s.

“Enlisting” requires recognition, recognition requires belief, belief requires Christianity, thus there can be no possessed atheists.

Interestingly this would tend to mean that the words and beliefs of people before they were possessed would be the most accurate ideas of true Christianity and God, since logically they must be true believers.

I’m not disagreeing that within your view Satan can be involved in the process. I’m just saying that atheists can’t accept his advice, because they don’t believe he exists. They can only be tricked. Only Christians can take Satan’s advice, for only they believe he exists and so are able to recognise that advice and that it comes from him.
Overall i’m coming to the conclusion that it’s very dangerous to be a Christian under your beliefs. After all, all us athiests or people of false religions are merely tricked and fooled into it. We are victims of things we don’t even know about. But if you’re a Christian, you can consciously accept Satan or reject God, and can be more blamed for their decisions.

It’s easy to discern between the fair-minded religious folks and the judgmental religious right. Can’t you see the difference?

But Christianity is simply Christ dying for our salvation, and having us love one another as he loved us, enough to die for us. So how could the christian religion seem worse to you? See, if we keep our eyes on Christ and his pure teachings, how could anyone find fault in that? People find fault in those who act self-righteous… or when a church figure does not “act” like one, as in those pedeophile priests. When I hear about them, I think they were so wrong to take advantage of young innocent children using their powerful roles in the church. And I think if there is a just God, he’ll handle them. So, I’m not going to leave the church because of some renagade sexual devient who used God to push his sexual agenda. I’m gonna let God handle him ( and the courts). People fail, the Church (doctrine) will never fail.

Yes I see the difference, and I like the fair-minded people a lot more. The thing is, how do you know which of you is doing the work of god? I don’t think defining god’s intention as whatever I or you prefer is right is going to get us anywhere good, since it elevates human perception/interpretation to an absolute truth. We (all of us) need to be able to question everything, up to and including the morals we currently think of as right and good.

That would be a fairly harmless (if practically useless) belief. The thing is, christian religion in practice entails far more objectionable dogma than that.

The first ones to object would be the people who have a slightly different interpretation of whatever Christ taught. Regardless of what would be the best for everybody.

Unless you can come up with a cite from a well known atheist publication, I’m afraid you just broke at least one of your Ten Commandments.

I’m sorry but all of the authors are dead, and I leave talking to dead people to spiritualists/religionists. I leave talking with dead people to the delusional.

Which one?

"You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

From the teachings of Jesus Christ, as recorded by Matthew in the 5th chapter

we inherently know what is right and wrong; what is moral or ethical. We have commandments to lead us, as well as laws which are based on these commandments. it’s not difficult to recognize or discern what God’s will is or what the work of God entails. God’s will would be for us to follow his commandments, I would think. And they’re not “suggestions”, but indeed commandments…

If I try to live my life by following these commandments, I noticed I have a more peaceful, serene life… and when I don’t (or when I do my own will) all hell seems to break loose… It’s just an observation. But it’s not always easy to do the right thing - life happens. :slight_smile: I’m starting to come to the conclusion that doing God’s will also should be my will if I want to be truly happy …

And the commandments go deeper than we think. Take the “thou shall not kill” commandment for instance. I understand it’s more than literally taking someone’s life, but when we destroy someone’s reputation through idle gossip, it’s a form of murder. Just saying…

well, I try to keep things simple and pure…

Do we? People seem to have different ideas on those things.

Of those ten commandments, exactly three are enshrined in law. Less than a third doesn’t exactly suggest “based on” to me. In fact, we can say that the majority of the commandments of God are not set down in law.

And yet, the majority of the world is not Christian. And yet even within Christianity, the idea of what God’s will is is debated. If it is so easy, why is it the vast majority don’t see it?

True, three commandments are enshrined in law, but the other commandments are represented in all of mankind, not just the judeo-christians who honor the 10 commandments.

Take for instance, envy. To be envious or covetous of another’s good fortune or their worldly possessions is clearly something most reasonable people would recognize as being if nothing else a serious “character flaw”. We should strive to be happy for others - only then will we rise above envy. So even if you are not within the judeo-christian belief system, there is something for all mankind to gain by the commandments.

Again, I think the commandments were meant for mankind, not just judeo-christians. And to answer your question, possibly because people tend to rationalize and believe what fits into their agenda or actions? People see what they want to see - unless they’re true realists who refuse to rationalize anything to justify their actions… (like me) :slight_smile:

I do not think there is any difference in how people lead their lives and what religion they are. Bush robs from the poor and gives to the super rich,goes to unnecessary wars and condones torture while wearing his religion as a shiny badge on his sleeve. The number of reverends caught doing illegal and immoral acts would fill books. The difference is they convince their followers that because they read the bible and share beliefs they should be forgiven, and they are somehow better than non believers. I would not be surprised to find atheists live a more ethical and moral live than the religious. I would be surprised if they didn’t.

Yet envy drives people to strive to be better / richer / more learned / better practiced than they currently are. Why would envy by itself be bad? I’m envious of other people, and I don’t think it’s made me a worse person, in fact, just the opposite - when it hasn’t made me strive to “better” them, it’s made me think about why things are how they are.

Or like me. :slight_smile: But smiling alone isn’t going to get us closer to the truth.

We certainly would have one less excuse :wink: