Would producing a birth certificate do any good?

[villa]

@Champion-of-Truth

So very true! You know, I’m willing to BET MY FUCKING LIFE that when Obama’s treason is finally brought to justice and he’s taken out of office (or prevented from getting elected in 2012) due to his eligibility problems, the libtards will go apeshit.

Odd that you are willing to bet your life on it, but you won’t bet money on the results of the court cases.

Some might think you are running scared on that.

[gonzomax]

@j66

Some people came to the conclusion fairly early, ‘These people are nuts’ and ignored the details of the claims.

However, this could be an interesting story for a cold and lazy Sunday. Do one of the many links lead to a coherent summary of all the claims?

(BTW, I used to get rather elegant form completed by hand with the seal embossed as a birth certificate, but my siblings got photocopies of the original page in the register. Now, every one gets a little index card type of form.)

So your siblings are illegal aliens?

[Ibn_Warraq]

@TravisFromOR

Would producing a birth certificate do any good?

Or, would the shit-for-brains birthers just claim it was a fake?

No, as others have pointed out they’d either claim it was fake or then try and argue the fact that his father was a British citizen somehow means he’s not a natural born US citizen.

Remember, the birthers are completely ignoring the fact that even if Obama had been born in Kenya, he’d still be a natural born American citizen.

There are only two types of US citizens, natural born ones, and those who’ve been formally naturalized.

I myself was born in Tehran to an American mother and an Iranian father and I didn’t have to be naturalized. In short, I was a natural born citizen.

So was a friend of mine who’s mother was an 18-year-old American girl who went into premature labor after unwisely attending a wedding party in Mexico. Also, her father while now an American citizen, at the time, was a Mexican national.

Champ at one point blustered that according to the law of the time Barack Obama wouldn’t have been recognized as a natural born citizen, but when asked to produce evidence for this, he refused to provide any.

He’s simply wrong, the children of American teenagers born abroad have always been recognized as American citizens. People don’t have to worry that if their 19-year-old daughters give birth in Montreal their grandchild won’t be an American citizen.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@gonzomax

It was a great conspiracy. The best.
When Obama was born in Kenya, the doctor immediately thought he could become President of the US. A poor kid with a black father and a white mother are a hot property for American politics. The doc notified the right people in Hawaii. He had the Hawaiin doctor who apparently agreed that Obama was a clear cut choice for future president, create a phony birth certificate and register it with the proper, apparently paid off authorities. Then he had 2 newspapers run birth notices that Oama was born in Hawaii. For some reason, the newspapers gladly agreed to do that.
Then , when he was elected ,they had to convince the new authorities to issue fake birth certificates upon request. For some reason, they too were glad to do it. The people in charge all were convinced, probably under penalty of death, to slip a fake certificate to any and all requests. The doctors who said he delivered him was glad to lie. The authorities in charge of the certificates all were involved and glad to lie.

It could happen.
in a parallel universe.

One thing I don’t understand about the Birther theory is why Anne Dunham flew to Kenya when she was nine months pregnant (somehow without a passport) to have the baby when she could have just as easily stayed in Hawaii and not had to mess around with arranging this 50 year long conspiracy involving hundreds of people, local newspapers, a local hospital, the state of Hawaii (including the Republican Governor who verified the existence of the original document), etc. What was accomplished by flying to Kenya to have the baby? How does that help them in their fiendish, far-reaching plot to place an America-hating secret Muslim in the White House?

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

It’s obvious, isn’t it? If he was born in Hawaii he wouldn’t hate America.

[TravisFromOR]

Wait…I figured it out.

Obama was born by Cesarean–this is noted on his long form certificate. We know from the legal precedent set by Hamlet that someone who is born by Cesarean is not “naturally born.” This explains why Obama won’t show it.

The birthers are right!

I got this revelation in a hangover-induced stupor, so YMMV.

[running_coach]

@TravisFromOR

Wait…I figured it out.

Obama was born by Cesarean–this is noted on his long form certificate. We know from the legal precedent set by Hamlet that someone who is born by Cesarean is not “naturally born.” This explains why Obama won’t show it.

The birthers are right!

I got this revelation in a hangover-induced stupor, so YMMV.

Oh, yeah? Where’s his scar?

[Kolak_of_Twilo]

I must say Diogenes, you raise a very good point. What exactly was the purpose of all these elaborate machinations? Hopefully, Champion of Poo will be back soon to explain.

I’m tingling with anticipation!!!

[j666]

@gonzomax

So your siblings are illegal aliens?

No, my birth is the one about which there is some doubt. The record of my birth was ammended and the photocopy will not be provided. Why, I have no idea.

@TravisFromOR

Wait…I figured it out.

Obama was born by Cesarean–this is noted on his long form certificate. We know from the legal precedent set by Hamlet that someone who is born by Cesarean is not “naturally born.” This explains why Obama won’t show it.

The birthers are right!

I got this revelation in a hangover-induced stupor, so YMMV.

Close, but no cigar. Macduff was from his mother’s womb untimely ripp’d.

[TravisFromOR]

@j66

Close, but no cigar. Macduff was from his mother’s womb untimely ripp’d.

MacDuff, from the play Hamlet.

[Mr.Miskatonic]

@TravisFromOR

MacDuff, from the play Hamlet.

You fail Shakespeare forever!

[TravisFromOR]

@Mr.Miskatonic

You fail Shakespeare forever!

Oh, shit…

I meant the Scottish play.

In my defense, I am hung over…

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

@TravisFromOR

MacDuff, from the play Hamlet.

Aahhhhh. Hot potato, orchestra stalls, Puck will make amends.
[tweak each others nose]

[OttoDaFe]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

One thing I don’t understand about the Birther theory is why Anne Dunham flew to Kenya when she was nine months pregnant (somehow without a passport) to have the baby when she could have just as easily stayed in Hawaii and not had to mess around with arranging this 50 year long conspiracy involving hundreds of people, local newspapers, a local hospital, the state of Hawaii (including the Republican Governor who verified the existence of the original document), etc. What was accomplished by flying to Kenya to have the baby? How does that help them in their fiendish, far-reaching plot to place an America-hating secret Muslim in the White House?

@Kolak_of_Twilo

I must say Diogenes, you raise a very good point. What exactly was the purpose of all these elaborate machinations? Hopefully, Champion of Poo will be back soon to explain.

I’m tingling with anticipation!!!

It just proves how fiendishly clever [insert boogyman/men du jour] is/are.

[Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension]

@TravisFromOR

Oh, shit…

I meant the Scottish play.

In my defense, I am hung over…

What’s in a name?*

• Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2) - This part is just so our friend can get an example of citations. Incidentally, the fact that an argument with a [del] birther [/del] guy who doesn’t have what it takes to be a birther winds up in a flurry of Shakespeare quotes warms my tiny dark heart

[Aji_de_Gallina]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

Yes.

You don’t get anything from the hospital in the US. When you get a copy of your birth certificate from the state, you get a COLB. That is the official document. The original document is archived and never seen.

Thanks a lot.
Now I see that the birthers’ arguments are even “more wronger” than I thought. They’ve gone, in my mind, from “most seriously deluded” to “unforgivably stupid”.

[Starving_Artist]

@Polycarp

With all due respect, SA, because you’re a cut above the average Birther just asking reasonable questions, let me say that there is no “mystery”; it’s a matter of Hawaii’s privacy laws. The information that Birthers keep harping should be made public, they cannot make public without a change in the relevant statutes. They are no more entitled to the information under current law than I am to know your full real name, address, phone number, and bank account and credit card numbers, just by asking for them. The team of Ed Zotti and jdavis would probably be technologically capable of obtaining that information nd posting it here, but in the process would likely be breaching Illinois, Tennessee, and Federal law and would definitely be laying themselves open to a disastrously expensive lawsuit from you for breaching an expectation of privacy and facilitating identity theft, and so would never do it in actuality. The same holds true for the custodians of Hawaii’s vital statistics.

If you’re familiar with the nuances of the legal phrase “beyond reasonable doubt”, I’d say that it’s what Obama’s birthplace has been proven beyond. Sure, it’s possible to construct a far-fetched conspiracy theory based on their reticence to violate their own state’s laws. But more than sufficient evidence has been adduced to demonstrate that Obama was in fact born in Honolulu, never surrendered American citizenship, was never raised Moslem, etc.

Fair enough, Polycarp. Ignorance fought. Thanks for your post. This is the kind of information that is persuasive as opposed to just generalized declarations of wingnuttery.

Some of the board’s posters may feel that had I done the proper research I would have known all this by now, but the fact is that prior to this thread I hadn’t paid the issue anything more than scant attention. Like I said, I was just playing Devil’s Advocate, and my questions were based mostly upon random snippets I’ve picked up here and there from news reports and reader comments. It should be apparent from the fact that I’ve never made an issue of Obama’s birth on the boards before that I have had no particular concern about it to begin with. I have sufficient faith in our legal system (and little other choice anyway :)) to believe that the issue has no merit or it would have been before the Supreme Court long before now.

[Belowjob2.0]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

One thing I don’t understand about the Birther theory is why Anne Dunham flew to Kenya when she was nine months pregnant (somehow without a passport) to have the baby when she could have just as easily stayed in Hawaii and not had to mess around with arranging this 50 year long conspiracy involving hundreds of people, local newspapers, a local hospital, the state of Hawaii (including the Republican Governor who verified the existence of the original document), etc. What was accomplished by flying to Kenya to have the baby? How does that help them in their fiendish, far-reaching plot to place an America-hating secret Muslim in the White House?

This.

It’s the weirdest thing.

A teenaged girl, facing her first pregnancy, leaves behind her parents, friends, familiar surroundings, a modern American hospital, and family doctor, at the potentially most perilous time.

Buys a very expensive plane ticket. Does nearly 24 hours of air travel. For what? Why? Where could the money have come from?

If this was a fucking conspiracy, the masterminds would make damn sure their Manchurian candidate was born in the US. It’s not at all hard to arrange. I’m sure there were children born to actual Soviet spies in deep cover, on US soil.

I’m just now reading Thomas Frank’s What’s the Matter with Kansas. The Birthers are the epitome of white folks who persistently vote against their own interests, and are perpetually angry.

[42fish]

@Starving_Artist

It should be apparent from the fact that I’ve never made an issue of Obama’s birth on the boards before that I have had no particular concern about it to begin with…

…except for the previous time that you decided to defend a birther in the Pit.

(The late, not very lamented Morella, in this thread: The Tea Party is not socially conservative my ass - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board)

(Disclaimer: SA did insist while defending Morella that he was not actually defending her.)

[pseudotriton_ruber_ruber]

Does anyone else think that the ultimate purpose of all the conspiracy talk is so some Head Nutjob in Chief, the Prince or Queen of the Rightwing Whackjobs (Michelle Bachmann or Alan Keyes or someone) is finally granted a one-time exception to the laws of the state of Hawaii, and gets to inspect the actual original Certificate of Birth, and then–instead of testifying afterwards as to its authenticity (or inauthenicity)–pisses on it, tears it up, and then burns it up (well, maybe tears, burns and pisses on the ashes) and from then on in, THERE REALLY IS NO ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE ANYMORE AND IT IS FOREVER AN UNANSWERABLE QUESTION?

Because that’s what I think the plan is.