Would producing a birth certificate do any good?

The BBQ Pit
141

Bless your heart. So do I.

And you know what? If you took your magical-pixie-dust “long-form” birth certificate to the Washington State Department of Licensing and tried to use it to get an enhanced driver’s license (sort of a mini-passport allowing the bearer to cross the border from Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean), they would, to paraphrase one of your other posts, “laugh at you and throw you out on your ass.” Why? Because it wouldn’t have a registration number that can be used to link back to the original archive and certify its accuracy. In other words, the SoW — and apparently the Federal government, since the EDL rules were drawn up with their participation and approval — accepts only a CoLB as proof of citizenship by birth.

Which, of course, only proves that they, and damn near everyone else*, is in on the conspiracy.

*“There’s no one left but thee and we . . . and we’re not sure of thee.”

  • Chad Mitchell Trio, The John Birch Society
142

Really? :rolleyes:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/obama-campaign.html

THis ‘African Press International’ promised to release the tapes and never did. The whole thing was fake. For fun you can look at the FreeRepublic thread and watch them deflate over a period of being strung along.

Here, let me link some liberal rag that warned folks not to fall for it:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/171989/michelle-obama-report/byron-york

143

[QUOTE=Champion of Truth]
Good lord, the libtards are gonna freak when they realize we’re not clones of one another!
[/QUOTE]

I know. CoT doesn’t 100% believe Obama was born in Kenya, he just has questions that need answerin’.

SA doesn’t 100% believe Obama was born in Kenya, he just thinks some questions haven’t been answered.

You could drive a Mack truck through those differences! Or at least an extra-thin tissue paper.

144

Hey, birther, you hysterical little screechy-monkey, why don’t you stop wasting our time and go away and fix your bullshit detectors? They’ve obviously exploded from too much time spent reading WND :p:p:p

PALATB!

[sub](Point and laugh at the “birther”)[/sub].

145

I stayed up too late, I got up too early, I haven’t had coffee yet, and I’m cranky. So I’m not going to catch up on this thread 'til later. But these caught my eye on a scan:

You do want to see it. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t be raising such a ruckus. Exceptions have been made. The birth certificate release to the public is incontrovertible evidence of Obama’s place of birth. Name one other person for whom the same document has been considered insufficient. The original certificate has been examined by qualified people (which you are not) in accordance with the law. This is extraordinary and exceptional.

There are NO Constitutional issues. It is a documented fact that Obama was born in Hawaii, and thus is a natural born U.S. citizen.

Unlike some people, I believe in the Rule of Law. If you don’t like a law, you can use the American process to attempt to overturn it. You can’t just ignore laws because you personally don’t agree with them. Especially not if you’re a Conspiracy Theorist crazy person.

The original document is not held by the hospital. It is held by the State of Hawaii. The State of Hawaii will not release it to the public because that would be in violation of the law.

There are no Constitutional issues. It is documented that Obama is a natural-born U.S. citizen.

My information is correct. It has been documented by people who have seen the original document. The original document contains the hometowns of Obama’s parents – which we already know. It contains Obama’s birth weight. I’ve read the eligibility requirements for a person to become President, and nowhere does it say that a person must meet birth weight parameters. What, ‘Obama weighed seven pounds, six-and-a-half ounces at birth! :eek: That’s too small to be President!’?

146

COT pretty much answers the OP’s question. No, releasing a long form birth certificate wouldn’t do any good. These dumb assholes would just say, “Well, what about this, this and this?” And even if you could convince them beyond a doubt that Obama was born in the U.S., they’d bring up some other bullshit issue like “Hey, his father was a British subject, so he’s not really a natural born citizen.”

It’s like trying to convince the Moon Hoaxers that the moon landings really happened. And I’d say even they are more intelligent than the birthers. I know, that’s not saying much. But at least in their heads they have extensive “scientific evidence,” even if most of said evidence is easily refuted. They’ve taken time to study the issue and drawn up some “facts” based on what they’ve discovered. Again, if these folks were willing to take off their blinders they’d see those “facts” don’t amount to much, but they have what amounts in their world to some sort of reasonable basis for their beliefs.

What do the birthers have, other than “Hey, Obama’s grandma once said this” or even just “Why is he being so mysterious, if he has nothing to hide, why doesn’t he just release his long form certificate, school records, dental records, field trip permission slips, etc. etc.”

And really the only reasons this even became an issue is because a) he has a funny name b) his father was born in Africa and c) he’s a Democrat.

As to why he doesn’t release his long form. My guess is that he feels there’s no need to. It’ll reopen the controversy, drawing a lot of media attention to it, when most intelligent people, left and right already feel the issue has been settled. And, as evidenced by this thread, it’ll do absolutely nothing to quell the most hard core birthers, who, as it is, are pretty much the only ones left loosing any sleep over this.

147

With all due respect, SA, because you’re a cut above the average Birther just asking reasonable questions, let me say that there is no “mystery”; it’s a matter of Hawaii’s privacy laws. The information that Birthers keep harping should be made public, they cannot make public without a change in the relevant statutes. They are no more entitled to the information under current law than I am to know your full real name, address, phone number, and bank account and credit card numbers, just by asking for them. The team of Ed Zotti and jdavis would probably be technologically capable of obtaining that information nd posting it here, but in the process would likely be breaching Illinois, Tennessee, and Federal law and would definitely be laying themselves open to a disastrously expensive lawsuit from you for breaching an expectation of privacy and facilitating identity theft, and so would never do it in actuality. The same holds true for the custodians of Hawaii’s vital statistics.

If you’re familiar with the nuances of the legal phrase “beyond reasonable doubt”, I’d say that it’s what Obama’s birthplace has been proven beyond. Sure, it’s possible to construct a far-fetched conspiracy theory based on their reticence to violate their own state’s laws. But more than sufficient evidence has been adduced to demonstrate that Obama was in fact born in Honolulu, never surrendered American citizenship, was never raised Moslem, etc.

148

Are birthers actually Soviet sleeper agents sent here during the cold war to undermine the US government? Who else would be so obsessed with birth certificates besides people who have had to conceal their true identities for decades?

Why do they resist being interrogated by the CIA to prove they’re really who they say they are?

I’m not making any claims, just asking questions that they refuse to answer.

149

Clearly the only way to resolve this impasse will be to revert to your former system of government. There’s no dispute about where Liz II was born!

150

**California

Texas

New York

Florida

Illinois

Pennsylvania

Ohio

Michigan

Georgia

North Carolina

New Jersey

Virginia

Washington

Massachusetts

Indiana

Arizona

Tennessee

Missouri

Maryland

Wisconsin

Minnesota

Colorado

Alabama

South Carolina

Louisiana

Kentucky

Oregon

Oklahoma

Connecticut

Iowa

Mississippi

Arkansas

Kansas

Utah

Nevada

New Mexico

West Virginia

Nebraska

Idaho

Hawaii

Maine

New Hampshire

Rhode Island

Montana

Delaware

South Dakota

Alaska

North Dakota

Vermont

Wyoming**
Take your pick, kook. You don’t have to be a birther to be a kook. Alan Keyes said we have no idea where he was born. And you actually believed him? You are gullible. If Obama was not born in Kenya then he was born in the United States. :smiley:

151

I’d like to second this. It’s pretty clear that our views are diametrically opposed, but I’d always felt that your opinions, while steeped in hoary fantasies of an ideal yesteryear that never quite existed, at least came from a sincere place. Watching you willingly splash around in sewage with the likes of C-of-T, even under the guise of Just Asking Questions, is a really sad sight.

152

Hey, good to see you, Poly; I been missing seeing your byline during the past couple of weeks. I guess we just haven’t been hanging in the same threads.

I’ve been hearing so much about long form birth certificates, that it occurred to me to wonder what one is supposed to look like. So I did a google image, and got [utl=“Tom McMahon: What An Original 1961 Long-Form Birth Certificate From The State of Hawaii Looks Like”]this.

So, it appears there really is such a critter. It looks like the form that is filled out at the hospital, and is then surrendered to the appropriate civic repository for safekeeping (and retrieval, when necessary).

I’m not going to go pounding on Orly Taitz’s door with “new evidence” over this, of course. The linked image looks like what was provided by the HI Dept. of Health in 1966. It’s not incredible to me that they might have changed the way they store and retrieve the documents.

What I find notable, though, is the fact that the “Obama-is-ineligible” contingent cavils that the document being released since 2009 is labeled not as a “birth certificate,” but as a COLB, or “certificate of live birth.” And I find it funny that this is how the so-called “long form” birth certificate is labeled.

153

Would you want this guy to have held a security clearance? I’m relieved, frankly.

By the way, kudos to you for the way you’re keeping your temper with respect to this gentleman’s posting style.

This is the part that I keep wondering about. I see a bunch of students at the Birch Society forensics school yelling at their instructors “What! how do you KNOW that paper made in the 60’s had a higher rag content than paper from the fifties!” and “I found some cheezy internet site that says acid content in ink was 2% higher in the 90’s!”. Plus I keep seeing all the birthers individually lining up to exam a birth certificate because no one believes anything that anyone else says.

Plus, did COT help Glen Beck kill that woman? I’m just asking.

But wait - her father died when she was in Kenya! Coincidence? I think NOT! Is the succession valid? I’m just asking, I just thowin’ that out there!

154

Is a “Certificate of Life Birth” the same as “Birth certificate” in the US?
In Peru, FWIW, the COLB is given by the hospital and isn’t an official document. You use it to get the Birth Certificate from the municipality where the birth happened.

155

I am absolutely shocked that in all the threads we’ve had on this subject, no one has answered this question!

156

Fixed your link. From the comments:

Let’s assume that the State of Hawaii decided paper took up too much space. Let’s assume that they copied all records onto microfiche, and then destroyed the paper. Even though a microfiche copy is an exact copy – a photographic negative, if you will – of the original piece of paper, and is incontrovertible evidence, the crazy people (and I’m convinced they are mentally ill) will cry that it isn’t real.

These people are like whiny children. ‘But I want a piece of candy!’ ‘No. You’re not getting any candy.’ ‘But I want a piece of candy!’ stamping feet Ironically, these are the same types of people who say they would not abide that sort of behaviour in children – and yet they do exactly the same thing.

157

Yes.

You don’t get anything from the hospital in the US. When you get a copy of your birth certificate from the state, you get a COLB. That is the official document. The original document is archived and never seen.

158

It was a great conspiracy. The best.
When Obama was born in Kenya, the doctor immediately thought he could become President of the US. A poor kid with a black father and a white mother are a hot property for American politics. The doc notified the right people in Hawaii. He had the Hawaiin doctor who apparently agreed that Obama was a clear cut choice for future president, create a phony birth certificate and register it with the proper, apparently paid off authorities. Then he had 2 newspapers run birth notices that Oama was born in Hawaii. For some reason, the newspapers gladly agreed to do that.
Then , when he was elected ,they had to convince the new authorities to issue fake birth certificates upon request. For some reason, they too were glad to do it. The people in charge all were convinced, probably under penalty of death, to slip a fake certificate to any and all requests. The doctors who said he delivered him was glad to lie. The authorities in charge of the certificates all were involved and glad to lie.

It could happen.
in a parallel universe.

159

Oh, I’ve lost my temper.

And no, I would not want him to hold a clearance. Mentally ill people should not, especially when they are prone to angry outbursts. I was just pointing out that he knows nothing of security or document control.

160

Some people came to the conclusion fairly early, ‘These people are nuts’ and ignored the details of the claims.

However, this could be an interesting story for a cold and lazy Sunday. Do one of the many links lead to a coherent summary of all the claims?

(BTW, I used to get rather elegant form completed by hand with the seal embossed as a birth certificate, but my siblings got photocopies of the original page in the register. Now, every one gets a little index card type of form.)