Would society be better off without Tobacco?

[RickJay]

@Jackmannii

Not only would outlawing tobacco be a mistake (unenforceability, a rampant black market, encouragement of organized crime) but people constantly discount the economic benefits of smoking.

Apart from the obvious (tobacco companies, farmers, convenience stores and smoke shops), there’s the air freshener industry, garbage collectors, tree cutters (for the paper) and most importantly from my standpoint the health care industry elements that get a big boost from smoking.

Cardiologists, pulmonologists, urologists, oncologists and pathologists (hurray for me) derive an important percentage of our income from the diagnosis and/or treatment of smoking-induced disease. Just today I diagnosed lung carcinoma in another long-term smoker (let’s see, tracheal biopsy, bronchial brushings, bronchial washings - that all runs into money).

So anytime you hear pundits griping about the economic impact of smoking - pshaw, pay no attention. There’s money in it, if you know where to look.

This is just an extended Broken Window Fallacy.

[Superfluous_Parentheses]

If there was no tobacco we’d be mostly better off. The most significant draw back would be that we’d have to smoke our weed pure all the time.

Seriously though. I’m a smoker, and it’s probably not doing me any good on average.

[Blalron]

@TriPolar

Would the world be better off? I doubt by much. The problems associated with tobacco use are exaggerated. I won’t get into the lung cancer issue or second-hand smoke debates.

I’m not sure there’s much of a “debate” on the lung cancer issue anymore. The evidence that smoking causes lung cancer is about as firmly established by science as any issue can be. If you think the “jury is still out” on this question, I don’t think anything I post will sway your mind.

Exaggerated?

@wikipedia

The World Health Organization estimates that tobacco caused 5.4 million deaths in 2004[24] and 100 million deaths over the course of the 20th century.[25] Similarly, the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention describes tobacco use as "the single most important preventable risk to human health in developed countries and an important cause of premature death worldwide." [emphasis mine][26]

[TriPolar]

@Blalron

@TriPolar

Would the world be better off? I doubt by much. The problems associated with tobacco use are exaggerated. I won’t get into the lung cancer issue or second-hand smoke debates.

I’m not sure there’s much of a “debate” on the lung cancer issue anymore. The evidence that smoking causes lung cancer is about as firmly established by science as any issue can be. If you think the “jury is still out” on this question, I don’t think anything I post will sway your mind.

Exaggerated?

@wikipedia

The World Health Organization estimates that tobacco caused 5.4 million deaths in 2004[24] and 100 million deaths over the course of the 20th century.[25] Similarly, the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention describes tobacco use as "the single most important preventable risk to human health in developed countries and an important cause of premature death worldwide." [emphasis mine][26]

It would be easy to debate lots of points about smoking and lung cancer that don’t have anything to do with the commonsense conclusions, which is why I didn’t get into it. I didn’t say anything about the jury being out.

I didn’t read your whole cite, but I didn’t notice anything that said smoking causes lung cancer. I think you mean smoking is one of the major risk factors for lung cancer.

That’s why I didn’t go there you see. It’s a whole other debate about causal relationships. People would much rather die from a strong correlation than a cause and effect relationship.

[TriPolar]

@Mr.Krebbs

Society would be better off without tobacco, no doubt; that is, if tobacco never existed. Otherwise, I think the freedom to choose one’s own path is a more noble (and realistic) goal than minimizing world suffering through legislation.

I don’t see what the concern is about future generations becoming addicted. I’m 25 and started smoking at 19. It’s not like I wasn’t educated about the risks beforehand, therefore I chose my addiction.

If you don’t already, someday you’ll wish somebody stopped you from starting. Not the government, those jack-booted thugs better not try to stop me from killing myself slowly. But somebody.

[Blalron]

@TriPolar

That’s why I didn’t go there you see. It’s a whole other debate about causal relationships. People would much rather die from a strong correlation than a cause and effect relationship.

It gives people a way to rationalize their behavior. I’m sure everyone has heard anecdotes about people who live to be a 100 while smoking 2 packs a day, or someone who has never smoked a day in their life but got lung cancer. For any particular individual who has lung cancer, there’s always the possibility that they would have developed it even if they didn’t smoke. And there’s always the possibility that a smoker will never develop a smoking related illness. People aren’t used to thinking in statistical terms.

But semantic quibbling aside, it seems pretty obvious that scores of people are dropping dead earlier than they otherwise would have if they didn’t pick up smoking.

[gonzomax]

@TriPolar

@Mr.Krebbs

Society would be better off without tobacco, no doubt; that is, if tobacco never existed. Otherwise, I think the freedom to choose one’s own path is a more noble (and realistic) goal than minimizing world suffering through legislation.

I don’t see what the concern is about future generations becoming addicted. I’m 25 and started smoking at 19. It’s not like I wasn’t educated about the risks beforehand, therefore I chose my addiction.

If you don’t already, someday you’ll wish somebody stopped you from starting. Not the government, those jack-booted thugs better not try to stop me from killing myself slowly. But somebody.

All those things i said are dead serious and true. Saying there are other causes that cause those problems does not change the fact that all of them are found in the smoking habit. I have heard of a lot of home fires caused by smoking in bed. It happens ,but only to smokers. The health problems are huge. My dad had half a lung cut out at the age of 42. He died at 53. He always had a diminished ability to exercise because smoking was harming his lungs.

[TriPolar]

@gonzomax

@TriPolar

If you don’t already, someday you’ll wish somebody stopped you from starting. Not the government, those jack-booted thugs better not try to stop me from killing myself slowly. But somebody.

All those things i said are dead serious and true. Saying there are other causes that cause those problems does not change the fact that all of them are found in the smoking habit. I have heard of a lot of home fires caused by smoking in bed. It happens ,but only to smokers. The health problems are huge. My dad had half a lung cut out at the age of 42. He died at 53. He always had a diminished ability to exercise because smoking was harming his lungs.

I was just presenting the opposing point of view. No one doubts that tobacco kills people. No rational person anyway.

[EVERYNAMEISTAKEN]

I think tobacco should be legal on principle. The government has no right to tell people that they can’t do something that is not in any way harmful to someone else, even if it is unhealthy.

Once we start meddling into people’s lives like this, where does it end? Should sodas be made illegal?

[Blalron]

@EVERYNAMEISTAKEN

I think tobacco should be legal on principle. The government has no right to tell people that they can’t do something that is not in any way harmful to someone else, even if it is unhealthy.

If a cop sees someone on his own front lawn playing Russian Roulette, do you think the cop should be able to stop him? Maybe you don’t. But I think it’s pretty widely accepted by most people that the state can intervene and prevent people from taking their own lives.

This cite says there are 405,000 deaths in the U.S every year due to tobacco, and 17,000 for all illegal drugs. Tobacco causes about 24 times as much carnage as all those less socially acceptable drugs our government has chosen to wage war on.

Imagine that tobacco was completely unknown to us, and the legislatures of the world were looking at this new substance with unbiased, fresh eyes and comparing it to any other addictive substance. There’s not a chance in hell it would remain legal under those circumstances.

But there’s a huge established industry with deep pockets, lots of lobbyists, and millions of voters hooked on it. This is the only thing that insures the continued legality of tobacco.

Once we start meddling into people’s lives like this, where does it end? Should sodas be made illegal?

I think there’s a major difference between tobacco and soda. It’s quite possible to drink some soda every day and not put your health at serious risk. But even one cigarette a day can triple the risk of heart disease and cancer.

I do think that soft drinks should not be sold in public schools (it teaches kids bad habits), and that there should be a tax on soft drinks to reduce overall consumption. But I wouldn’t go so far as to outright ban it.

[gonzomax]

Smoking is stupid, but i don’t want to make it illegal. It is sad that people start so young. But that can not be prevented. People do a lot of stupid and dumb things. Watch them drive cars if you doubt that.

[Mozart1220]

@WhyNot

@Mozart1220

Really? Here in Iowa they plow under cornfields to build subdivisions. How long do you think we can keep doing that?

One day more than we pay farmers to burn their crops in the fields instead of bringing them to market.

I have lived in Iowa most of my life, and not once have I seen a farmer burn his crops in the feild. I have never even heard of it being done. Sounds like a “Reaganism” to me. (see welfare Moms)

[jackdavinci]

There’s two different questions here.

“Would society be better off without tobacco?” to which the answer is probably, although if tobacco never existed, it’s possible something roughly equivalent might have taken it’s place.

“Should we make tobacco illegal?” to which the answer is no. And the corollary “Would prohibiting tobacco have any real affect on tobacco use” to which the answer is no.

Wondering about the merits of an alternate universe is quite different than thinking you can actually put the genie back in the bottle.