Would the military want my worthless butt?

Factual Questions
1

I’m finishing up my MA in english this spring, but I’ve decided a PhD is not for me, which has occasioned much hand wringing about what I’m going to do with the rest of my life.

I had considered enlisting in the military after HS, even talked to recruiters, but I was a semi-pacifist at the time so it didn’t really go. But as time has passed I’ve found myself always thinking, “y’know, I shoulda done that. But I’m too old now, I’m 25 (26, 27, 28)”

Well, now I’m 33, single and half-heartedly pursuing a teaching career (which will always be there). And I find myself thinking that it’s not like I’ve got anything better to be doing, and I really do believe in the general task the US militray will be engaged in for the next decade or so (please no hijacks) … why not see if I can actually be useful?

I know the Navy takes enlistments up until 34, but that doesn’t necessarily meant they would want me. As I see it, the one thing they might want is my brain; my GRE scores were MENSA-level. Not that I have any practical education or training in anything.

So then, career advice:

  1. What, if any use could I be to the military? What MOSs might be possibilities?

  2. I’m open to other “service” jobs, provided they pay a living wage (20k or so; I have too much debt to volunteer for the peace corps…). State Department?

I can find links myself, but I’m looking for inside info from people who are/were/know someone who speaks from experience.

2

Do not consider joining the military unless you are prepared to go to war. Right away.

3

Sure, you’ll take the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB), and be able to see what they offer you. There’s no committment until you actually sign on the dotted line, so to speak.

Well, unless things changed. I assume the ASVAB still is used.

4

Asking a 33-year-old with an M.A., a mensa-level IQ, and professional work experience to take the ASVAB is like asking Albert Einstein to take a remedial math course.

Considering enlisting? I think you would be extremely unhappy and completely out of your element, as your peers (and superiors) would invariably be vastly younger 18-21 y.o age range and vastly less educated than you are (high school grads).

All enlisted jobs in the military, without exception, are geared toward high-school level abilities. Individuals of your age range, experience and educational level in the military are usually field grade officers by now – majors in the Army, lieutenant commanders in the Navy.

Since you are too old to be an officer, but still interested in serving your country, why not consider a civil service position, like an operations officer for the Central Intelligence Agency or an FSO for the State Department? Both agencies actively recruit people such as yourself.

I think as someone desiring to serve their country, you would fit in better and be better appreciated in an organization like that, rather than the blue-collar world of the military. Also, at the State Dept. or CIA, you would be doing work that is commensurate with your abilities, rather than mopping floor as a lowly private in the Armed Forces.

Nevertheless, I would strongly discourage a person with your qualifications like yours from joining the service. The truth is, you just wouldn’t fit in and people would probably think that you are an oddball both in the service and outside if you did.

Also, unless you’re an officer, the military doesn’t really appreciate, let alone know what to do with highly intelligent and over-educated personnel. Enlisted members are not paid to think – they are paid to obey orders. The fact is there are no suitable jobs at the enlisted level for people with M.A. degrees or years of professional work experience.

And since you’re too old to be an officer, but still desire to serve your country, you might as well find a civil-service position where you would be able to use the totality of your skills and be appreciated for it. The military would not appreciate someone of your caliber, like I said, unless you were an officer.

5

I am. Not that I’d be in much demand on the front lines. But I’d be willing to strap 100 lbs of C-4 to my ass and jump out of a plane if that’d help.

Balthisar, I took the ASVAB in 1988 and they told me I could do almost anything I wanted; I’ve no doubt I’d do well on it again. But I kind of suspect that a 33 yo with a score of X and a spotty employment record is less attractive than a comparable 18 yo.

6

You should also consider seeing the officer recruiter. With your education they may look at you with an eye towards the intelligence services, linquistics, etc. Also check out the FBI and the Secret Service. They are definitely hiring.

7

I guess this is kind of what I was thinking, too. Does anyone know more about these kinds of jobs than I can get from the official sites?

8

Here’s the CIA employment Web site. Having interviewed with the CIA before, which involved a one-day orientation about their organzation and all their professional-level employment opportunities, I would encourage someone with your qualifications to look into either “Analytical Positions” as a "Collections Analyst (requires advanced degrees in the liberal arts and a min 3.2 GPA), or if you’re more interested in “undercover” and “direct contact” positions, I would encourage you to look into “Clandestine Positions” at the CIA as a "Case Officer."

Also, here is the link at the State Department for Foreign Service Officers (FSOs). I believe the State Dept. gives the FSO Exam once a year – usually in the Fall. I’ve taken it before, and it was very similar to the LSAT, except with a lot of world history and international-relations-type questions. If you pass, basically you’ll spend some time on a waiting list before ever being called for an interview.

Btw, I’ve heard stories about retired CIA case officers, whose official-cover was working as FSOs out of U.S. Embassies around the world. Ironically, they said that they actually preferred their daytime official-cover position as an FSO to their actual undercover CIA position as a case officer. (FSO careers, apparently, were more rewarding and desirable jobs involving less intrigue and less stress, according to them.)

And of course, there is the FBI which is always looking for Special Agents, Linguists, etc. I personally think law enforcement is a less interesting and the FBI is more of a “meathead” career than working in intelligence or foreign service, but to each their own! Bon Chance Mes Amis!

9

Oops. I meant CIA “Operations Officer” – not case officer.

10

My most enjoyable job as an officer in the military involved work with government civilians from many different organizations. While you may not have the technical skills you might need to come in at a GS-13 position (Major equivalent) I would be amazed if you couldn’t get a slot listed as “target 14”, which means that you would come in as high as they could bring you in, and then they would ensure that you rapidly ascended the promotion ladder (if you’ve earned it) until you’re a GS-14. Civil service jobs pay well, and the government will often pay off student loans and the like in exchange for a promise of time served.

The CIA, State Department, Defense Department, NSA, and FBI will all have civilians “fighting the fight” against terrorism. Are you tied to a particular city, or would you be happy to relocate to join an interesting job?

11

Oh, hell I’ll go anywhere. And Kmg, I (sadly) don’t think I’m the “Clandestine Operations” type. A desk job would be more up my alley.

12

kmg365, you’re right, of course, but to get into the military one’d still need to take the ASVAB. It’s not an intelligence test (mostly), but an aptitude test. Big, big difference.

furt, if you really want to know if the military would want you, just go see a recruiter. There’s no commitment initially. They’d tell you almost right away if their particular service would want you.

I think, though, that kmg365 pretty spot-on, though. You’d be out of your element, but probably really popular during advanced training – you’d be the guy able to buy booze for the less-than-21-crowd. I already see myself turning into one of those people disjointed from the younger generation, the 18 year olds. And I’m a year younger than you are. So you’d experience some type of double culture shock (military and children).

If you still want to pursue it, though then kmg365 is kind of right about the jobs. They’re designed so that high school kids can learn them initially, but they really are adult jobs. There are even satisfying jobs that many adults are happy doing. Clearly you’d want to avoid driving tanks (well, yeah, not many in the Navy, but I’m an ex Army guy myself) or being a cook. But being a machinist is an adult skilled trade, and pretty neat stuff. Being a nuclear technician is probably pretty cool, although you probably wouldn’t want to be stuck on a submarine (my best friend was, and it sucked according to him). There’s RADAR, communications, and a whole array of technical fields. But… you being an English major and all probably precludes technical fields (your own choice, I imagine). So that leaves linguistics and intelligence among others.

I think I can genuinely say that I owe my current, well-paid, engineering job in an auto manufacturer directly to my enlisted training and job, and I don’t mean that soldierly crap – I serviced air traffic control equipment (really, really cool stuff).

Good luck.

13

You would not be out of place like the someone suggested…If you came in enlisted, what he said would be partially true. However, if you join as an officer you will be working with other officers. To be an officer in the military you have to have a degree. Ergo, you will be among your peers.
Someone else suggested that you will be shipped off to war as soon as you join. This is not true, I have been in for 3 years and have not seen “battle”. I did go to England for 2 months to support Iraqi freedom, however, it was not difficult or dangerous.
I would explore the Air Force as an option the most. The reason being is the Air Force has the highest standard of living of any branch.
If you want any more advice, just let me know. I’m off to work (war?).

14

Poloin99, I think we’ve been concentrating on “enlisted” because that’s the word the OP used – maybe he doesn’t know the difference between enlisting and being commissioned? In any case, having worked air traffic control in the Army (and therefore with Air Force people, mostly the weather squadrons), I agree 100% that the Air Force guys had a much, much better quality of life. :slight_smile:

I think, though, that even as an officer there would be an out-of-placeness to the situation. Imagine starting your career as a 2LT working for a 10-years-younger CPT or MAJ. Your fellow 1/2LT’s will still be in the younger generation. By time you’re CPT, your peers will still be younger. Of course, after some time, none of that would make a difference any more, but you can’t forget that junior officers are, well, junior officers.

15

The maximum age for receiving a commission in the Army, Marines, etc. is 30. And given that the average enlisted soldier has never gone to college and is under the age of 21 – on average – I think someone who is 33 with an M.A. would not only feel out of place among such a group, but would also feel out of place as a junior officer, given that the average Army captain is in his early 30s.

16

I personally knew at least a dozen enlisted soldiers in the Army who had BA/BS degrees and another half dozen who had Masters degrees. I also knew one who had graduated from law school and passed the bar exam. They did not join the military as officers, and only one of them became an officer later, as far as I know.

I know popular opinion in the US is that military enlisted types are boneheads who barely graduated from high school, but it turns out that is not entirely the case.

If you are really intrigued by the military and think that it would be good for you, I recommend that you talk it over in depth with your recruiter. I must offer the caveat that your recruiter is going to lie to you. Absolutely, positively don’t believe anything to be true that he/she doesn’t put down in writing.

I could talk about this subject in depth, but I won’t do that here. If you’re really interested, let me know and I’ll email you.

17

I hope I didn’t help spread what bluethree calls popular opinion. He’s right. The fact is, in the Army anyway, to get promoted to and beyond certain enlisted ranks, a college degree is almost required. Unless you’re a super soldier who always scores a perfect 300 in P.T., expert qualification in everything, and a whole lot of other requirements. It’s often easier to get the degree.

18

You’ve probably covered this already but considering you have a college degree, why not go in as an officer?

19

As a former USAF officer (8 years-worth) with an exchange tour with the US Army and some intel connections, I strongly second everything kmg365 said. Your best bet is some civilian government job in or near the DoD or State. I’m not a law enforcement type, so I won;'t offer suggestions there, but I must admit that Homeland Security is certainly the growth industry within government for the next few years.

If you are determined to go military, then …

Educated junior enlisted men are rare and definitely out-of-place. As well as cruelly underpaid compared to your capabilities. That 10% of E-5s & 20% of E-8s have bachelor’s degrees might be true (I’m just guessing at the numbers) but it’s also irrelevant to furt’s situation.

Officer is the only way for you to go. Pay is OK and the class difference between officer and enlisted is hard for a civilian to understand. It’s paternal, not adversarial, but it’s as strong as the difference between executives and factory workers.

Folks have said you must be 30 to be commisioned as an officer. I haven’t looked it up for myself, but even assuming that’s true, if there’s a need then there’s an exception to every regulation. And these days the DoD might be needy.

Your initial challenge would be to find a recruiter that understands working the system and is inclined towards the odder specialties. They deal predominantly with enlisted folks, so somebody wanting to go in as an officer is already a fringe case.

If there is a National Guard or Reserve unit near where you live, go talk to their PR department. Call first. They can’t help you directly, but they’re the agency most used to dealing with the public and can turn you on to whoever they have who needs somebody who can do whatever you do.

If you’re going to get a waiver on the officer age issue, it’s much more likely to suceed with somebody pulling from the inside in addition to you pushing from the outside.

If you have some idea of some job you’d like, discuss it with the local folks. They may be able to tell you about some specialized unit that does what you’re looking for. The DoD is HUGE and you can’t expect to learn your way into its nooks and crannies from the outside. And you’re an unusual enough case that the nooks and crannies are probably your best bet.

Something to consider: Unlike civilian employers, the military assumes you don’t know spit about your new job. So they train you to do it from scratch. Their only assumption is that you speak the language and aren’t handicapped mentally or physically.

So your education & work history doesn’t DISqualify you from any job they have. It also doesn’t QUALlify you for any job. Air traffic control? Supply officer? Computer programmer? Policeman? Artillery officer? Linguist? Submarine driver? Facilities maintenance? Aircraft maintenance? Ship overhaul? Etc., etc., etc.

The catalog is huge and it really comes down to what you want, what your aptitude indicates, and what they need. Your degree and teaching can be as relevant, or as irrelevant as you want it to be.

Finally, let me offer a thought about quality of life. As I said, I was both Air Force and Army. I worked maybe 10% of the time with the Navy and 5% with the Marines. My brother did essentially the same job I had, but he was Navy all the way. So I think I’m pretty well qualified to speak to the differences between the various services, at least as of when I left them 15 years ago.

All 4 services pay exactly the same for the same work and rank and longevity. Navy pays more for being on a boat or sub, but other than that they’re all the same for equivalent work.

USAF is by far the best deal in terms of lifestyle. Navy has lower quality shore facilities and depending on your job you’re stuck on the boat a lot. Boats are kinda fun at first, but the excitement wears off pretty quick.

Army spends about 1/10th what the Air Froce does per capita on facilities. After awhile the military becomes mostly a job. It’s still a unique way of life, not merely a job. But after a few years, whether the paint is peeling in your office or not can have an effect on your attitude. Likewise whether the equipment you use, be it a computer or a cannon, is 3 years old or 33. And if you’re stuck in Nowheresville USA or Korea or … you’ll start to care about the quality of the groceries and the food and the apartment they issue you.

Since I’ve been out in industry I’ve worked for companies slowly going bankrupt and companies flush with growth. Life in the Army feels a lot like the former. Shoreside Navy is better, but not much. Air Force is much more civilized.

That’s my two cents worth.